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Angle Shooting or Good Poker skills?

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  1. SexyStudThang SexyStudThang is offline

    Tampa, FL
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    Aug 23rd, 2006 (8/23/2006 9:45pm)

    During my stay in Vegas this year I had a sleight conversation with (a drunk) Clonie Gowen about the nature of "angle shooting" and what exactly the term means. She was adamant that anything sleightly misleading should be considered cheating. Of course that begs the question, isnt bluffing misleading? So what seperates a great play, from borderline cheating as far as actions taken at the table?

    Consider the following few "angles" that could be taken at the poker table. Which are out of line?

    1. Assuming you've gotten a good read on a player, and can pinpoint their hole cards. When a player whom you are certain is losing to you is considering a call, with say AQ, and you casually explain that you can beat his Queen unless it's AQ, and he calls.

    2. When you've made a bet playing the board, been called, and announce the hand that is on the board with confidence, causing your opponent to muck his hand.

    3. As we all know one oversized chip is a call, and two chips or more whose combined value is more than the original bet is a raise (assuming no verbal action was declared first). You're facing a bet of 6000, and you throw out one 10k chip, and one 1k chip. Once they cross the staging area, you THEN say "call" explaining your intent to just recieve one 5k chip in c hange from the pot.

    4. Pretending you're drunk to induce loose action.

    5. Saying anything along the lines of "If you go allin I'll call" and doing the opposite.

    6. When in a casino that doesnt follow the "forward motion" rule, and very strictly abides by the little white line on the table, moving you're entire stack of chips up to the line, without crossing it or touching it, and starring at your opponent as if waiting for his decision. When he announces call you pull the stack back.

    That's just a few of the things that could arise that are in the grey area of angle shooting. I come from a game (Magic) where plays similar to this are heralded and talked about years afterwards, and the "judges" encourage strict intrepretations of the "floor rules" for any given way the game is played.

    So which of these (If any) are "cheating?"
  2. murderer murderer is offline PM me

    Southampton
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    Aug 23rd, 2006 (8/23/2006 9:48pm) in reply to SexyStudThang

    LMAO @ Clonie Gowon showing such strong moral fibre.....COUGH.....PLAGERISM.......COUGH.....COUG H......
     
  3. TomHimself TomHimself is offline

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    Aug 23rd, 2006 (8/23/2006 10:00pm) in reply to SexyStudThang

    2,3,6 are def angle shooting. the rest are all just extremely lame and things i wouldnt do
  4. jhill3535 jhill3535 is offline

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    Aug 23rd, 2006 (8/23/2006 10:45pm) in reply to TomHimself

    I don't think there is anything wrong with 2. If the board has 2 pair on it, and you say "2 pair", even if you say it strongly, it is up to the other person to realize that they have that hand as well.

    3 and 6 are definately angle shooting
     
  5. SexyStudThang SexyStudThang is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2006 (8/24/2006 12:01am) in reply to jhill3535

    Actually I'm pretty sure, by definition, all of these can be considered angle shooting: the question being is exploiting the rules a form of "cheating?"
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  6. TomHimself TomHimself is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2006 (8/24/2006 12:05am) in reply to jhill3535

    " I don't think there is anything wrong with 2. If the board has 2 pair on it, and you say "2 pair","

    im pretty sure thats a very obvious angle.

    say the board is like 35532 and you say 2 pair he might thinnk u have a overpair. i dont know
  7. jhill3535 jhill3535 is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2006 (8/24/2006 12:09am) in reply to TomHimself

    In that case acting strong when weak is an "angle".

    I just mean that I don't think it should be considered cheating, and is not as bad as the other 5.

    3 and 6 should definately be "cheating" 1, 4, and 5 are borderline cases IMO.
     
  8. jhill3535 jhill3535 is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2006 (8/24/2006 12:11am) in reply to TomHimself

    Now I kinda see where you and OP are coming from on #2. I was assuming that when I said "2 pair" I tabled my hand.

    If you kept your hand protected and covered until the other person mucked his cards I could see how that should be considered an angle that is another borderline case.
     
  9. SexyStudThang SexyStudThang is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2006 (8/24/2006 12:21am) in reply to jhill3535

    Each one of those is something I've seen, done, or read about, and in the case of #2 it was a hand played by Daniel Negreanu in one of the PPMillions, where he turned his hand face up on the table, and with a straight on the board just said "I got the straight!" as serious as he could. The guy looked back at his hand and threw it into the muck. I believe there IS a rule about misrepresenting your hand on showdown, although Im not 100% sure. For the sake of the argument I was assuming the hand is exposed.
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  10. riskybusines riskybusines is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2006 (8/24/2006 12:21am) in reply to SexyStudThang

    I think 3 and 6 could be ruled "cheating" by the floor, everything else perfectly legal and IMO good plays. I believe a central theme to the game of poker is trying to outwit eachother.

    Heres one that is really low ( A friend of my dads claims he is 3 for 3 with this play) You must be accross from the table from someone with poor eyesight. You hold Ax (red but not suited, i.e. AhKd) 3to a flush hits on the river and you make a strong bet, then if called simply turn your ahnd over and say" gotta love that river" and watch them toss thier hand into the muck.

    Another reason Im an Advocate of the FOUR COLOR deck- I mean cmon just makes sense.
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