[Passiveplay]

Ok so it has been my goal for a few years to play professionally. I had some goals at the beginning of the year and have exceeded them all. I have over 6 months living expenses in the bank. Right now I play $165 mtts and under plus the PS and FTP majors with a 50/50 backing deal. I've been playing about 3 days a week, I'd love to play more but my game suffers after a 10 hour work day so I cut weekdays mostly out. I have a wife and two kids which has made it hard for me to make the jump. If you were in my situation what would you do? Would you save enough to play unbacked before making the jump? Or any general advice.

A few other notes my insurance sucks and it would be cheaper for me to get it on my own rather than through my work. I have a fairly demanding job that they want me to work 50+ hours a week I make decent money but am salary so not much hourly. Also I find myself very unmotivated at work and feel that will catch up to me sooner than later.

[shootair]

if ur good enough, its a great job. and ull never know til u try......it is a different game when u play it for a living though...oh and fk mtt'ing for a living, i could never imagine sitting in front of a comp 10 hrs a day everyday. play cash games. that way u can create ur own hours and make a shit ton of money doin it

[Cmoney3]

dont do it

[Shrubbery]

 

Originally Posted by Cmoney3

dont do it

this. stick with your job and grind on the side. pokers too sick

[Dissident]

Having a regular job and a family makes it hard to put in the type of volume you need to be pro

[Goldenad]

take it from someone who has been playing "professionally" for the last year inbetween undergraduate and graduate school (2-4 days a week, 30-60 hours/week)...playing mtts for a living is a miserable fucking existence. the highest highs dont begin to compare to the lowest lows and depending on your schedule, youre going to be facing a lot of variance and long stretches of time where you doubt every aspect of your game. i hope you have a lot of good players you can talk to so youre always improving and keeping your head in the right place.

i can pull it off because im living at home with my parents and theyre not financially dependent on me. having 2 kids would make me never want to play mtts outside of just for fun because youre going to miss out on a lot of family stuff ie soccer games, recitals etc when youre too busy grinding on a sunday

[DonkeyPunchYa]

 

Originally Posted by Goldenad

take it from someone who has been playing "professionally" for the last year inbetween undergraduate and graduate school (2-4 days a week, 30-60 hours/week)...playing mtts for a living is a miserable fucking existence. the highest highs dont begin to compare to the lowest lows and depending on your schedule, youre going to be facing a lot of variance and long stretches of time where you doubt every aspect of your game. i hope you have a lot of good players you can talk to so youre always improving and keeping your head in the right place.

i can pull it off because im living at home with my parents and theyre not financially dependent on me. having 2 kids would make me never want to play mtts outside of just for fun because youre going to miss out on a lot of family stuff ie soccer games, recitals etc when youre too busy grinding on a sunday

sick brag

[MadTiger]

3-6 months living expenses saved is a general rule for anyone.

For a businessperson, double that.

It's not just for poker; whether you are grinding poker, or selling hotdogs, you need to have a safety net.

Oh, and you have a wife and two young ones? You might want a few months tacked on to that estimate.

Pay down your debt before you even think about it.

Just sayin'.

[iatetheredcrayon]

ask anybody that plays professionally if they are really happy with what they are doing. a large percentage will tell you they would rather take a real job with stable pay, etc.

[TiltinShoes]

I have mixed feelings on this one. It looks like you have thought it through and made the preparations. I guess I could OPR you, but are you beating your games with good success? I am in the beginning stages of learning cash because what Goldenad says is correct. You spend most days losing money. You are excited about days you break even, and your wins don't extend that far until it is a grind again. You have to have thick skin.

I worry for you in that regard. You might have very thick skin, but how is your wife? It is stressful, and she will probably never truly understand the ropes. I would worry that you could get into a spot where you have to make some sort of a choice between you and your wife, and when it is your livelihood, it isn't as easy to prioritize as you would like it to be. My guess is it will add a ton of friction to your home life.

[FLUSHDUDE]

All you have is 6 month living expence, and your the head of the household? whats happenes when you hit your downswing and your kids need food/clothes, you get rivered over and over and can't do shit about it. I would say if you were single and didnt have to take care of 3 people i would do it. Maybe you can handle the stress better then other not knowing when you will hit a decent score again. Stay working and try to hit it big on your free time. way less stressful!

[Passiveplay]

I appreciate all of the feedback... I guess right now I'm to the point where I've made twice as much in 6 months playing poker as I will all year working 50-60 hours a week. My job is really a job, I wouldn't consider myself a business man, I make like $49k a year but for the hours $17/hr. Like I said I am finding it very difficult to focus on my work, which I would obviously quit if I didn't make that clear. As far as debt I have a house and a car, but have paid off all my old credit card bills. I don't plan on paying of my vehicle ahead of time because I went through credit counseling and it has hurt my credit score so it's better to make payments on time to build my score. I put in its like I've been playing for 4 years or so I do have a general understanding of variance, but I've never played day in and day out as I would have to so I am sure that makes it even more difficult. Also I have 6 months in the bank and would be staked so I would have effectively a $15k BR aside for poker only. But it's not quite the same becuse obviously there are some negatives that go along with staking.

But again thank you to everyone who posted... I honestly have been down on myself because I always said if I did certain things I would give playing poker full time a shot and I have accomplished alot of those but haven't pulled the trigger. It's a big decision that I don't take lightly and appreciate all feedback, and the good thing about poker is it will not be going anywhere anytime soon so I can grind/save more and still have the same opportunity is 6 months availible to me.

[jtj03]

Depending on what schedule you plan on playing I have a couple things to contribute:

I imagine your kids are in school so whether you are at work or play poker for work (as a pro as you americans say) you dont see them from 8am till 5pm anyways, so if you grinded this schedule it doesnt have much of a family impact. (outside of sunday majors, which are almost unmissable as a pro)

What about finding another job, maybe a part time one, that can still provide a 401k, etc. I doubt youll want to have 0 cash flow outside of SS when your 70+

And probably most importantly and Im sure you know this what does your wife want, does you both fully understand the variance in this stupid game. Personally I feel like I am playing some of the best poker in my life, and am on the biggest downswing of my life.

If you can handle the pressure of 50k+ swings then going unbacked it not unreasonable.

I really dont think playing poker for a living is sustainable for more than 5-7 years, poker has the abilty to provide a lot of liquid cash, which for most of the smart players they use for investments and positive cash flows that ARE sustainable and a career if you will, while they still dont do shit, play poker when they want, and have an above average lifestyle.

[poisoneye1986]

how much is ur wife able to support financially. i know kids can be a burden financially but if the wife can keep you breaking even and you put them over the top i think it makes sense.

what is your job? could it be possible to work part time? doesnt sound like it if ur putting in 50+ hrs in a highly performance based job. and $17/hr is good and all but its not great ur probably making twice as much in half the hrs playing poker. you can always go back to work. someone with ur experience will be able to get work. maybe you wanna build ur life roll up to 1 yr living expenses or more but i think you can do it. 3 days a week 12hrs a day.

[BMad524]

I wouldn't walk away from 49k guaranteed in this economy. God forbid you get a shitty run of cards for a few months and your family's well being starts to be in jeopardy - its going to be crazy tough to get a job again. When you interview of why you haven't had a job for 6 months, you can answer 'I walked away from my job a few months ago to play professional but i always get sucked out on so now I need a job to pay the bills pleeeeease.'

Good luck on whatever you decide. I'd def suggest keeping the job and grinding when you can tho.

[apology7 Cake Poker PLB Champ]

not sure why everyone says you need to play 60 hours a week, learn to mass multi table 15+ mtt's during peak hours and you can get by with a lot less hours.

people are also painting a ridiculously grim portrait of grinding mtt's. it's not the best way to make a living but it sure beats being a slave w/ a boss for 48k a year, but since you have a wife and kids to worry about I guess the answer isn't so clear though. gl

[Passiveplay]

 

Originally Posted by jtj03

Depending on what schedule you plan on playing I have a couple things to contribute:

I imagine your kids are in school so whether you are at work or play poker for work (as a pro as you americans say) you dont see them from 8am till 5pm anyways, so if you grinded this schedule it doesnt have much of a family impact. (outside of sunday majors, which are almost unmissable as a pro)
Agreed, I think I would have more time with my kids because now I'm working and grinding.

What about finding another job, maybe a part time one, that can still provide a 401k, etc. I doubt youll want to have 0 cash flow outside of SS when your 70+
This might be the way I want to go, and have thought about this a lot. I probably haven't looked nearly hard enough but if I could find a part time job that allowed me some freedom it would be great. Like right now I'd like nothing more than to fly out this weekend and play a WSOP event but there is zero chance I can get off work. There was a WPT event 15 minutes from my house that had a bunch of good tournies to play and I had to miss all of them except the Saturday one that was a $1k which was higher than I would have liked to play.
And probably most importantly and Im sure you know this what does your wife want, does you both fully understand the variance in this stupid game. Personally I feel like I am playing some of the best poker in my life, and am on the biggest downswing of my life.
She wants me to play poker right now but I know she will never understand the variance involved.

If you can handle the pressure of 50k+ swings then going unbacked it not unreasonable.
Is a $50k downswing completely standard? One thing I thought and I may be completely wrong on this. But I hear players talking about huge downswings and I wonder if they are playing in games where they over estimate there edge. For instance I doubt most of the players in the $100r or $1k's have an edge or if they do it's thin. A lot of people play these as like an ego thing and it greatly increases variance. Like I said I don't play these games and don't think I will even if I was rolled. I would think adding some smaller tournies my reduce variance. But I'd love to hear what others think about that.
I really dont think playing poker for a living is sustainable for more than 5-7 years, poker has the abilty to provide a lot of liquid cash, which for most of the smart players they use for investments and positive cash flows that ARE sustainable and a career if you will, while they still dont do shit, play poker when they want, and have an above average lifestyle.
I agree, and don't know if it's something I would want to do forever. Don't get me wrong I love playing poker and play with most of my free time. But A LOT of top pros get burnt out so it must be a job that gets old.

Awsome post.

[fly44]

As someone who plays the stakes you are talking about I would 100% wait until you can play without backing and still have a safety net of back up cash in case you don't make anything for a few months. If I only made half of what I have made this year I would want to kill myself.

I think the best idea that was suggest was find a job that you only have to work 3-4 days a week and still get some benefits (if that is possible to find) and then play on your off days.

As for the swings in like 8 months grinding MTTs I haven't had a 50k downswing but I have had a few month stretch that was break even. Also if I were in your situation I would grind a ton on UB and smaller tournaments to lower variance but it seems like you already play a fair deal on UB.

[KYL3 Anderson]

talk to jlizard

[aad]

Suppose you do quit your job. Suppose you play poker for a living for a few months and find out it isn't working. How easy/hard would it be to get another job?

[negativeROI]

I took a job out of college making 50k/year like 2 years ago and quit after a few weeks to play professionally. I hardly ever have the passion to play anymore, not to mention it blows anyways. I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't quit my job if I had to go back and do it again (but such is life). Can you do it? Maybe. The problem is what are you going to do in 5 years? Are you going to grind out a living in poker for the rest of your life? Getting a similar job to what you have now will not be easy in this market (probably needs to be considered). I also don't have a wife or kids, so my advice would be to not do it. GL though, it's your life

[R_Webb18]

i mean if i had two kids i prob would not do it unless I know for sure my wife could handle the bills if it does not work out and cannot find a job.

[bukowski101]

Don't do it

[JDeEzLy]

IMO, the recurring roadblock here is the family.

For me, as a young buck in my 20s, with no ties to anyone or anything other than the small amount of debt I have from being a lifedonk in college, I would quit my job in a heartbeat if I could make the same amount (40k) playing poker.

I'm in the same work situation as you are - I work an average of 46 hours per week (I keep a spreadsheet of my hours because I am LAG with my raise negotiations, and I got one coming up next month glglgllg run gooot for me) and the work is mentally exhausting. To the point where I only play on the weekends, because that is the only time where I have enough "recovery time" to be in a mentally healthy mindset to play.

Of course, I suck at poker right now, so this is all just a pipe dream for me.

But honestly - if you knew you were going to die in x amount of time, had expenses/COL saved up for your family for 1 year after you're gone, what would you do? Would you waste your time working at a job you obviously hate, or would you freeroll as a poker player until you bite it?

IMO, people worry too much about the economy and getting a job (especially if your job is not tied to a degree - mine is, and even I'm not giving a shit about finding another one if I have to), so IF YOU CAN do it safely (ie. in 1 year, if you suck or go on the worst downswing ever, the worst that'll happen is you have to start interviewing for jobs with 1-3 months left of savings and essentially hit the reset button on your life), why the hell wouldn't you?

[Passiveplay]

I appreciate all the feedback, made this thread a fews weeks back, not sure how it got bumped. Sticking with my day job for now. With the current job market I am not sure if I could make the same money if I quit and had to go back to work. I am going to continue grinding and if I can play on my own and have enough money to feel secure I'll take a shot. I think if I never do it eventually I'll regret it.

Right now I am happy to live well even with my wife being a stay at home mom. I just got back from the WSOP which was a bitch getting off work for it, but if I didn't have a job may have needed that money for my BR or bills.

Also hopefully I can take down this PS $27.5

[curiousgeorge baby duck hat]

i think doing the job/grind weekends is a good idea. at least u will always have the job to pay the bills for the family.

[SigmaBetaRho]

 

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge

i think doing the job/grind weekdays is a good idea. at least u will always have the job to pay the bills for the family.

fyp

[iFish]

 

Originally Posted by apology7

not sure why everyone says you need to play 60 hours a week, learn to mass multi table 15+ mtt's during peak hours and you can get by with a lot less hours.

people are also painting a ridiculously grim portrait of grinding mtt's. it's not the best way to make a living but it sure beats being a slave w/ a boss for 48k a year, but since you have a wife and kids to worry about I guess the answer isn't so clear though. gl

lol ... everyone makes this generalization and most of them have never even had an office job. And they all leave out the fact that, if competent, you will be the boss and not the "slave".

I make $80,000 per year working 45 hours per week in an office and have cheap medical benefits. I also have the ability to work from home and get 5 weeks vacation per year. And I'll turn 31 next month so it's not like it took half my life to achieve.

I'll take this over being an mtt grinder any day AINEC. No downswings with a guaranteed paycheck and I'm not done being promoted there.

Corporate America is such a cushy gig. People just have too much self-entitlement these days IMO.

[StayCalm]

Office jobs suck...I have one and want to jump out the window every single day. I am all for telling people to follow their dreams, especially when it comes to poker since its one of my passions, but this case is a bit different since you have a family. If you were a 22 yr old straight outa college who can grind in his parents basement then I'd say you would be stupid not to try it out (esp since you have had some pretty solid scores). But your not, and you have a wife and kids. Pretty much need to put their needs before yours IMO

[jshark4]

 

Originally Posted by Shrubbery

this. stick with your job and grind on the side. pokers too sick

yup