pokerstars Hand #75152504132: Tournament #559010281, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XLIX (40000/80000) - 2012/02/06 22:53:43 WET [2012/02/06 17:53:43 ET]
Table '559010281 209' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: 7MAMMAMIA7 (1713036 in chips)
Seat 2: dionysos1987 (6709523 in chips)
Seat 3: royalflashr7 (2323780 in chips)
Seat 5: TheVirus217 (2213921 in chips)
Seat 6: PapaKerzh (1679648 in chips)
Seat 7: RedkingSV (2262092 in chips)
7MAMMAMIA7: posts the ante 10000
dionysos1987: posts the ante 10000
royalflashr7: posts the ante 10000
TheVirus217: posts the ante 10000
PapaKerzh: posts the ante 10000
RedkingSV: posts the ante 10000
PapaKerzh: posts small blind 40000
RedkingSV: posts big blind 80000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheVirus217 [Ad Qs]
7MAMMAMIA7: raises 80000 to 160000
dionysos1987: folds
royalflashr7: folds
TheVirus217:


only bought HM2 2days ago so im not really sure how to read some of numbers yet :S But my read on villain is he was pretty fishy, he was opening 4 -5Xbb some hands and min raising others, he hadnt really shown down many hands bar kk all in w 12 left.. i remember villains PFR is 2nd highest on the table..

whats the line here.. 3bet/call, 3bet/fold, flat? or shove.. villain definately is'nt callin my shove with worse than AQ, and i dont think hes 4 bet shoving wider than AQ,he was a kind of player that would flat a 3bet a big % of the time here too..thoughts?

 

Originally Posted by the_dean22

normally I'd say rip it, but due to a lack of information/UTG raise/such balanced chip stacks at the final; I kinda dig a flat here(esp since you have position). Based on ur reads, I definitely wouldn't be 3b/calling (since u say he won't 4b lightly and is prone to flatting 3bs), and I can't imagine folding...

Hello sir.....I have a few questions. Obv we are not in the gameflow and don't have reads on the sb and bb in this story, but should hero flat here what type of range would you assign here from a ship from either of the blinds and what range would you like squeeze jamming from the blinds?

Also..... provided utg does fold to one of these jams would you call/fold?

I know it is a read based decision but say we give them a capable/good player tag in general.

I was leaning towards a flat here as well but wanted to cover the what if scenario from the blinds as it appears to be spot one could exploit.

Peace

 

Originally Posted by the_dean22

normally I'd say rip it, but due to a lack of information/UTG raise/such balanced chip stacks at the final; I kinda dig a flat here(esp since you have position). Based on ur reads, I definitely wouldn't be 3b/calling (since u say he won't 4b lightly and is prone to flatting 3bs), and I can't imagine folding...

+1

 

Originally Posted by Pick6man

Hello sir.....I have a few questions. Obv we are not in the gameflow and don't have reads on the sb and bb in this story, but should hero flat here what type of range would you assign here from a ship from either of the blinds and what range would you like squeeze jamming from the blinds?

Also..... provided utg does fold to one of these jams would you call/fold?

I know it is a read based decision but say we give them a capable/good player tag in general.

I was leaning towards a flat here as well but wanted to cover the what if scenario from the blinds as it appears to be spot one could exploit.

Peace

If the blinds are decent/capable players and one them squeezes and UTG folds, I'm definitely calling Papa (SB). Redking (BB) has about 28 bbs, so it's pretty close. If he had <25bbs I'm probably always getting it in v. him. With 25-30bbs, it's close and it depends on gameflow, how easy it is to pick up chips, etc. Versus certain regs, I snap fold and versus others I snap call. Without a read, I probably flip a coin and decide.

 

Originally Posted by thevirus217

i didnt know we can flat here being so shallow? (500k in middle playing 1.5m) ... do we have a plan, eg are we goin to fold to c-bet what are we goin we goin to do on a KQX flop, and pick6man man says are we folding to a squeeze from blinds?

ill tell you now, i didnt know what to do here so i just shoved (closed my eyes and hoped kind of shove), which is pretty bad..
villain had AK and held..

i've been thinkin about this.. what about 3bet/folding? i know we are, in a sense turning our hand into a bluff, but if blinds wake up with a hand we can easily let it go as we didnt under-play our hand, also if villain has stronger hand we can get away too.. in the case of villain flatting we could c-bet/fold or just try get to showdown depending on the flop.. thoughts on this?

I'd rather fold than 3b/f tbh. 3b/f a top 5-6% hand vs. a fish is not good. Flatting is fine. you have 27bbs. That leaves enough room for a little bit of postflop wiggle room. It's definitely not standard, but in certain situations it's significantly better than shoving or 3b/calling vs. a range that always beats you.

If you flat in position vs. a villain that is fishy, I'm pretty much always peeling the flop. If villain bets turn and I don't have top pair, i'm folding. If villain checks turn, depending on pot size, I'm probably shoving and forcing him to put his tourney life on the line.

 

Originally Posted by luckierno7

3b/f as strong as aq in posiiton not best idea imo- flat is prefferable to 3b/fi think but i d just insta shove
dont rly agree the ' villain s def not calling worse'
u said his pfr is 2nd highest at the table so he s active- why not shove here 20bbs deep? he might call aj imo maybe ats if he s lil spewy idk, but also he s folding low pocket pairs and that s good result 4 us
aq still misses 60% and with this shallow of a stack we cant afford p[layin guessin games and float or w/e
and foldin to his cbet when u miss feels rly bad imo

1) we're 27bbs deep not 20.
2) high pfr from a fishy player in a $5 mtt doesn't necessarily mean he's calling off wide. he could easily be the fishy type that knows you're supposed to be aggressive at a FT so he opens a lot, but doesn't understand how to adjust to people playing back at him.
3) he is probably fold low pps pre, but we can probably force him to fold most of those post flop as well

not saying jamming isn't correct. just saying i think there are compelling reasons in this specific situation to flat.

by calling u can board play/ bet/ ship or muck and still have 2 million, these blinds aren't scary with your stack , sure arent seeing this on a merge ft thats for sure

i think that dean were thinking we were playing for 27bbs effective. i might be wrong.

vaillain is too short and too active for doing anything but getting it pre imo.

If the blinds are decent/capable players and one them squeezes and UTG folds, I'm definitely calling Papa (SB). Redking (BB) has about 28 bbs, so it's pretty close. If he had <25bbs I'm probably always getting it in v. him. With 25-30bbs, it's close and it depends on gameflow, how easy it is to pick up chips, etc. Versus certain regs, I snap fold and versus others I snap call. Without a read, I probably flip a coin and decide.

Agree.....very tough without gameflow and reads and making the decision at gamespeed is a whole different animal. Based on the fishiness read, stacks and players behind it has its complexities. Really kooleresque so in reality all of the options have some kind of merit. From a flatting perspective you could re evaluate pre flop action in either the blinds ship and utg calls and it provides some flexibilty on the flop as well. Can't disagree with jamming here either and the only benefit to 3b/c utg would be fold to the bb cold 4 bet perhaps. Flip a coin. flat=jam/3b call utg/3b fold to bb/fold pre.
Not to hijack but with a tight image how wide can you jam from the blinds profitably if hero flats?

Peace