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AQ - Shove or Fold?

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  1. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
    United States

    Posts: 989
    Joined: Dec 06

    Jun 10th, 2010 (6/10/2010 2:14am)

    No reads on either player... Do we shove or fold... I think flatting is horrible with our stack.

    pokerstars Game #45302409812: Tournament #315010863, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2010/06/09 19:09:06 MT [2010/06/09 21:09:06 ET]
    Table '315010863 25' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: saucermid22 (9485 in chips)
    Seat 2: tommypeters (2295 in chips)
    Seat 3: blackpipe (4600 in chips)
    Seat 4: llerrib (5950 in chips)
    Seat 5: Zacsika11 (6929 in chips)
    Seat 6: 8ntmuch (5037 in chips)
    Seat 7: Decro024 (6100 in chips)
    Seat 8: dingies (7311 in chips)
    Seat 9: Areanu (11776 in chips)
    saucermid22: posts the ante 25
    tommypeters: posts the ante 25
    blackpipe: posts the ante 25
    llerrib: posts the ante 25
    Zacsika11: posts the ante 25
    8ntmuch: posts the ante 25
    Decro024: posts the ante 25
    dingies: posts the ante 25
    Areanu: posts the ante 25
    llerrib: posts small blind 150
    Zacsika11: posts big blind 300
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to 8ntmuch [Qc Ac]
    8ntmuch: raises 600 to 900
    Decro024: raises 1500 to 2400
    dingies: folds
    Areanu: folds
    saucermid22: calls 2400
    tommypeters: folds
    blackpipe: folds
    llerrib: folds
    Zacsika11: folds
    8ntmuch: ????
  2. ILUVHAM ILUVHAM is offline

    Saint Johns, MI
    United States

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    Jun 10th, 2010 (6/10/2010 6:37am) in reply to 8ntmuch

    I would call then shove the flop. Actually depending on how many people left and if the blinds were going to go up before my next bb I might push all in pre.
  3. Steve Murkle Steve Murkle is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 1,483
    Joined: Nov 09

    Jun 10th, 2010 (6/10/2010 6:42am) in reply to ILUVHAM

    stick it in dont look back, hopefully one of them iso's
    461 
  4. Superleggera Superleggera is offline

    Memphis, TN
    United States

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    Jun 10th, 2010 (6/10/2010 6:55am) in reply to Steve Murkle

    I shove it in preflop there w/ AQs... as played I would fold after the 3bet and call
    Edited By: Superleggera Jun 10th, 2010 at 07:00 AM
  5. mdshack14 mdshack14 is offline

    Auburn Hills, MI
    United States

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    Jun 10th, 2010 (6/10/2010 6:59am) in reply to Superleggera

    I lean towards folding there just because I don't like AQ, especially to a reraise and flat. Just seems like a bad spot to me.
    Edited By: mdshack14 Jun 10th, 2010 at 06:59 AM
     
  6. hushpuckena hushpuckena is offline

    Natchez, MS
    United States

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    Jun 10th, 2010 (6/10/2010 8:49am) in reply to mdshack14

    This stack size is tricky-I like shoving if on the bubble at a timid table in particular-but the way you actually played, I prefer a fold.

    After this is three-bet, regardless of whether or not the other player flats, you can't flat yourself.
  7. cracker9ball cracker9ball is offline

    Tulsa, OK
    United States

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    Jun 10th, 2010 (6/10/2010 9:14am) in reply to hushpuckena

    fold. I would have to guess that you could find a better spot or pick up some blinds without a call soon to recoup, but to think AQ is ahead of both here is stretching. You might have outs, but I think as played you fold.
     
  8. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
    United States

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 3:25am) in reply to cracker9ball

    So it sounds like most are saying open shove versus raise fold, raise call or raise shove?
    Thread Starter
  9. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 3:54am) in reply to 8ntmuch

    jam pre obv
  10. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 4:10am) in reply to rungoodmuch

     
    Originally Posted by rungoodmuch View Post

    jam pre obv

    I have a hard time open jamming AQs from early position with ~17bb... guess that's a leak.
    Thread Starter
  11. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 4:23am) in reply to 8ntmuch

     
    Originally Posted by 8ntmuch View Post

    I have a hard time open jamming AQs from early position with ~17bb... guess that's a leak.

    Well with antes I think its a pretty easy jam because at least through my eyes Im never opening folding, and r/f seems exploitable therefore open jamming seems like the best option. If you do feel the need to r/f which I wouldn't suggest dont 3x.
  12. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

    Meridian, ID
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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 4:28am) in reply to rungoodmuch

    Makes sense... as played I folded. The 3bet was with KK and the flat was with JJ.
    Thread Starter
  13. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 4:38am) in reply to 8ntmuch

     
    Originally Posted by 8ntmuch View Post

    Makes sense... as played I folded. The 3bet was with KK and the flat was with JJ.

    It's nice that your opponents turned up hands that had you notched, however this doesn't mean that you made the correct play. After reviewing the hand and putting thought into this, almost anything but an open shove is bad. With 675 out there and only 5k not open shoving seems super nitty. open shove>>>fold>>>>>>>>>>>r/f
  14. poker4jab poker4jab is offline

    San Francisco, CA
    United States

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 8:22am) in reply to rungoodmuch

    Why is flatting so bad? Stop-n-go FTW.
  15. trevor grady trevor grady is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 9:18am) in reply to poker4jab

    I'll definitely call, i don't think $ randoms know anything about merging the ranges - i guess we're racing at worst.
  16. ntanygd760 ntanygd760 is offline

    Fort Drum, NY
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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 12:17pm) in reply to trevor grady

    shove pre
     
  17. Flopnuts1 Flopnuts1 is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 3:34pm) in reply to ntanygd760

    utg raise, utg+1 3 bet and call? Pretty sure you're smoked most of the time here...
  18. StayCalm StayCalm is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 3:36pm) in reply to Flopnuts1

    Fold as played. Shove pre may be best option. I'm probly never shoving over a reraise and a flat
  19. Flopnuts1 Flopnuts1 is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 5:56pm) in reply to StayCalm

     
    Originally Posted by Stay_calm86 View Post

    Fold as played. Shove pre may be best option. I'm probly never shoving over a reraise and a flat

    Too deep to open shove IMO...raise smaller to ~700-825 ish and fold.
  20. P33J P33J is offline

    Bloomington, IN
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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 8:00pm) in reply to Flopnuts1

    make it 2.5 and play against one shover, with the flat though and the fact that UTG+1 was the one who 3 bet you with like 20bbs himself make this a pretty easy fold. I don't really dig open shoving.
     
  21. Randers Randers is offline

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    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 8:15pm) in reply to P33J

    just cram it or open smaller and fold to this kind of action behind.
     
  22. ngocnu ngocnu is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2010 (6/12/2010 9:07am) in reply to Randers

    SHOVE
  23. cracker9ball cracker9ball is offline

    Tulsa, OK
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    Jun 12th, 2010 (6/12/2010 10:14am) in reply to ngocnu

    so many diff opinions, wow, this is a fold.
     
  24. keno9963 keno9963 is offline

    Racine, WI
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    Jun 12th, 2010 (6/12/2010 1:10pm) in reply to cracker9ball

    with your M of 7.5 not it's an open shove.
  25. cracker9ball cracker9ball is offline

    Tulsa, OK
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    Jun 12th, 2010 (6/12/2010 1:51pm) in reply to keno9963

     
    Originally Posted by keno9963 View Post

    with your M of 7.5 not it's an open shove.


    Is there any chance that your correct on your M thoughts in deep stack tournaments but in some of these tournaments where no one has a big M you have to still play some and not think every hand is a shove because of your M?
     
  26. rocksolid124 rocksolid124 is offline

    Denham Springs, LA
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    Jun 12th, 2010 (6/12/2010 2:33pm) in reply to cracker9ball

    Open shove is the answer by the way. Just a massive lol @ the people saying to r/f. Just...lol
    Edited By: rocksolid124 Jun 12th, 2010 at 02:34 PM
  27. wilLplay4mOnies wilLplay4mOnies is offline

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    Jun 13th, 2010 (6/13/2010 1:00am) in reply to rocksolid124

    Snap fold, not only are you crushed by AK who is def in there spazzing out but you are also against JJ+ which if you are already sharing outs with AK is not a good situation. Gotta muck it and wait for a better spot. With at least 3 orbits and 17bbs left you can wait for a better spot that doesn't involve everyone having a party.
     
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