the legend gershenator1 insists to me this is the optimal play.... ur thoughts?

Hold'em No Limit - Level V (200/400) - 2008/09/07 19:11:52 ET
Table '200800006 406' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: schotime23 (14730 in chips)
Seat 2: gershenator1 (7195 in chips)
Seat 3: Shanyu (11558 in chips)
Seat 4: spieler2000 (3875 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: Allin420Girl (9093 in chips)
Seat 6: jymarc (3275 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: nemi 15 (23128 in chips)
Seat 8: Kaktusdude (16714 in chips)
Seat 9: skivrmt (14907 in chips)
Shanyu: posts small blind 200
spieler2000: posts big blind 400

Holecards:
Dealt to gershenator1 [ ]
FOLD Allin420Girl
FOLD jymarc
FOLD nemi 15
FOLD Kaktusdude
RAISE skivrmt, 800 to 1200
FOLD schotime23
CALL gershenator1 , 1200
FOLD Shanyu
FOLD spieler2000

Flop:
[ ]
BET skivrmt, 1600
FOLD gershenator1
Uncalled bet (1600) returned to skivrmt
skivrmt collected 3000 from pot
skivrmt: doesn't show hand

SUMMARY:
Total pot 3000 | Rake 0

Board:
[ ]
Seat 1: schotime23 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: gershenator1 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Shanyu (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: spieler2000 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Allin420Girl folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jymarc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: nemi 15 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Kaktusdude folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: skivrmt collected (3000)

I'm not Waco or SCT but this is a shove 100% of the time no exceptions.

what would you suggest is the optimal play, shoving pre? or calling after flop hits? i dont think it's that awful but if he's bragging like its a genius play he's a moron.

Shoving pre is optimal. As played I am ok with the fold.

Why would you shove pre? It could easily be a coinflip vs AK...instead he was able to check fold an A high flop and he still has his torny life

 

Originally Posted by adam_mc

Flatting QQ on the button here is perfectly fine depending on who the original raiser was. If it is some aggro guy who will not be calling a lot of shoves because he is opening insanely wide, but will likely cbet 100% of flops then a flat is fine.

But if somebody is tight and never raise folding because they only open the goods you may as well get it in.

I mean I think the other hands posted were absolutely awful but flatting QQ here on the button really isn't that big a deal. The problem with flatting is when you get unfavourable flops such as this.

Either way jumping on this guy over flatting queens preflop is kind of stupid.

Adam's analysis is spot on.

I agree flatting here isn't the worst thing in the world, but I still don't think it is the best line.

I can't believe some of you win tens of thousands of dollars in MTTs and somehow find a rationale for anything but shoving here. "If they're aggro they'll c-bet" yeah and if they're aggro they'll likely catch the A or K they need to turn your QQ into a pathetic set mine for which you called off 1/5 of your stack. Sometimes I wonder if these answers by the "good" players are levels or if they just got lucky on the way up. Shove this hand in this spot every single time.

 

Originally Posted by 3kingme3

 

Originally Posted by TiltinShoes

 

Originally Posted by 3kingme3

Why would you shove pre? It could easily be a coinflip vs AK...instead he was able to check fold an A high flop and he still has his torny life

Level? OR you could be crushing 1010 JJ or AQ. You shove because you are ahead of his range and flatting can lead to unfavorable flops.

Im pretty sure helmuth would agree with me here, and he is the best poker player in the world

I honestly can't tell if you are joking or not. Oh well. Hellmuth is definately better than me, but anything but a shove here just isn't optimal.

lol 3king, you crack me up. hahaha

am i on crack or something or am i completly missing wtf is going on here saying that call/fold is well played?

He plays the online rig factor like I do obv.

 

Originally Posted by threebanger

I can't believe some of you win tens of thousands of dollars in MTTs and somehow find a rationale for anything but shoving here. "If they're aggro they'll c-bet" yeah and if they're aggro they'll likely catch the A or K they need to turn your QQ into a pathetic set mine for which you called off 1/5 of your stack. Sometimes I wonder if these answers by the "good" players are levels or if they just got lucky on the way up. Shove this hand in this spot every single time.

wat

btw adam_mc is spot on as usual

 

Originally Posted by Claw1980

 

Originally Posted by MarkFSU1

im reraising here to about 4k and obv calling villain shove, if he flats me im shoving flop regardless...

this line looks sooo strong.

This.

I don't see how anyone can afford to let them look at the flop for 1200 to see if an A/K hits, and you're just inviting other hands in the blind to get involved here. Even if they raised with 72 you will drop your set mine with QQ when one does. I can see committing yourself with 4k as someone else suggested (and making your hand look stronger) but either this or shoving has to be the only good way to play this with 7100 chips left. You can haul me off to the loony bin when I hear some better players agree that calling here is fine, cause it looks horrible to me.