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awkward spot with JJ in EP

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  1. dreday227 dreday227 is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 106
    Joined: Sep 06

    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 2:55am)

    $10R on stars (15min lvls) ...Just moved to table. Villan is a win reg. Whats ur line pre? Flat, 3 bc, or AIPF?



    - Level XVII (1500/3000) - 2010/10/25 17:48:14 PT [2010/10/25 20:48:14 ET]
    Table '337010641 116' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: calidre (80770 in chips)
    Seat 2: pokerfoosa (96394 in chips)
    Seat 3: STRONGNESS (52217 in chips)
    Seat 4: NutLuck (77383 in chips)
    Seat 5: Wetts1012 (42822 in chips)
    Seat 6: joran1 (234599 in chips)
    Seat 7: padelcolonia (53747 in chips)
    Seat 8: Josifov88 (123404 in chips)
    Seat 9: tecracy (138547 in chips)
    calidre: posts the ante 300
    pokerfoosa: posts the ante 300
    STRONGNESS: posts the ante 300
    NutLuck: posts the ante 300
    Wetts1012: posts the ante 300
    joran1: posts the ante 300
    padelcolonia: posts the ante 300
    Josifov88: posts the ante 300
    tecracy: posts the ante 300
    padelcolonia: posts small blind 1500
    Josifov88: posts big blind 3000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to calidre [Jh Jc]
    tecracy: raises 3000 to 6000
    calidre: ???
     
  2. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,979
    Joined: Jun 05

    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 3:14am) in reply to dreday227

    I think I'm in the 3-bet/call camp.
  3. PetiteMoose PetiteMoose is offline

    Seattle, WA
    United States

    Posts: 31
    Joined: Sep 10

    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 3:51am) in reply to grapsfan

    Too many chips to all-in. Too good of hand to fold. 3-bet somewhere 2.5x ish to 14,420. Throw up and fold to over shove - which basically turns your JJ in to a bluff but I can't see calling since you look so strong 3-betting UTG+1.

    Although smooth calling the raise would look like premium pair hoping for a squeeze so you might get to see the flop.
    Edited By: PetiteMoose Oct 26th, 2010 at 03:55 AM
     
  4. XxxMaYiToxxX XxxMaYiToxxX is offline

    Caracas
    Venezuela

    Posts: 182
    Joined: Apr 09

    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 7:09am) in reply to PetiteMoose

    3 Bet ....
     
  5. Lenail Lenail is offline

    La Tour-de-Peilz
    Switzerland

    Posts: 1,303
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    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 12:13pm) in reply to XxxMaYiToxxX

    Ye not a very easy spot, if you would be with like 50/60 BB it would change the picture as you can slowplay and certainly see a flop, fold if too scary ect.. As the stack size are and vilain is clearly a good player 3 betting his minopen is certainly the best play.
  6. Pipes06 Pipes06 is offline

    United Kingdom

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    Joined: Oct 07

    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 4:33pm) in reply to Lenail

    3b/c
     
  7. eDaN eDaN is offline

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    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 4:57pm) in reply to Pipes06

    lol? whats so hard about this spot? 27bb n jacks, stop n go, make it big enough to prepare yourself for a little more than a potsize shove, here's a very profound article by bond18:

    This move is basically known as the go and go. The more normal execution of the go and go 3 bet occurs with around 28-36 BB’s. The basic idea is this: Simply shoving pre tends to be a bit of an over bet. However your hand is way too good to flat call. So you reraise an amount that will make your flop shove (or occasional check shove) very natural.

    Example: Your stack: 35 BB’s. CO’s stack: 40 BB’s. You hold AsQs in the BB.
    Preflop: Folds to CO, CO raises to 3 BB’s.
    Alright, now the mistake some players make here is reraising to small. At 28 BB’s going to 9 BB’s would be fine but in a spot like this you need to bloat the pot, so I recommend making it about 11 BB’s. Assuming there are antes, if CO elects to call there’s going to be about 24 BB’s in the middle and you’ll have 24 BB’s left in your stack. On the vast majority of flops you need to be open shoving. THE ONLY TIMES YOU SHOULD BE CHECKING IS WHEN YOU HIT A CRUSHING FLOP. If you hit Ad 7s 2s (or something similar) you should be check shoving that flop. So after I make this post if I see anyone do this and fold a flop because their scared to shove I’m going to get medieval on their ass.

    The next important factor in 3 bet sizing is trying to keep your sizes consistent. The most obvious thing you see people doing is min 3 betting or tiny 3 betting with their huge hands in order not to lose the original raiser. VS non thinking villains who just see a good price and click the call button this is okay, but vs anyone capable of thinking about a hand this is pretty bad since you’re tipping them off to your strength. You see this kind of thing very often even at the high levels and from the good players, and every time I see one good player trying to tiny reraise another good player with AA / KK I just laugh at how transparently foolish they are. The defining factor in your reraise size should be effective stacks NOT hand strength, in most situations.

    http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...e#Post12644880
  8. dreday227 dreday227 is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 106
    Joined: Sep 06

    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 8:54pm) in reply to eDaN

     
    Originally Posted by eDaN View Post

    lol? whats so hard about this spot? 27bb n jacks, stop n go, make it big enough to prepare yourself for a little more than a potsize shove, here's a very profound article by bond18:

    This move is basically known as the go and go. The more normal execution of the go and go 3 bet occurs with around 28-36 BB’s. The basic idea is this: Simply shoving pre tends to be a bit of an over bet. However your hand is way too good to flat call. So you reraise an amount that will make your flop shove (or occasional check shove) very natural.

    Example: Your stack: 35 BB’s. CO’s stack: 40 BB’s. You hold AsQs in the BB.
    Preflop: Folds to CO, CO raises to 3 BB’s.
    Alright, now the mistake some players make here is reraising to small. At 28 BB’s going to 9 BB’s would be fine but in a spot like this you need to bloat the pot, so I recommend making it about 11 BB’s. Assuming there are antes, if CO elects to call there’s going to be about 24 BB’s in the middle and you’ll have 24 BB’s left in your stack. On the vast majority of flops you need to be open shoving. THE ONLY TIMES YOU SHOULD BE CHECKING IS WHEN YOU HIT A CRUSHING FLOP. If you hit Ad 7s 2s (or something similar) you should be check shoving that flop. So after I make this post if I see anyone do this and fold a flop because their scared to shove I’m going to get medieval on their ass.

    The next important factor in 3 bet sizing is trying to keep your sizes consistent. The most obvious thing you see people doing is min 3 betting or tiny 3 betting with their huge hands in order not to lose the original raiser. VS non thinking villains who just see a good price and click the call button this is okay, but vs anyone capable of thinking about a hand this is pretty bad since you’re tipping them off to your strength. You see this kind of thing very often even at the high levels and from the good players, and every time I see one good player trying to tiny reraise another good player with AA / KK I just laugh at how transparently foolish they are. The defining factor in your reraise size should be effective stacks NOT hand strength, in most situations.

    http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...e#Post12644880

    3bet/call seems to be the consensus, i'm familiar with the stop-n-go and go-n-go but those are employed when OOP
     
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  9. eDaN eDaN is offline

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    Joined: Oct 10

    Oct 26th, 2010 (10/26/2010 9:00pm) in reply to dreday227

    Well stop n go if he flats our 3bet...if he jammes then as u suggested, call IMO
  10. Lenail Lenail is offline

    La Tour-de-Peilz
    Switzerland

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    Joined: Apr 08

    Oct 27th, 2010 (10/27/2010 8:45am) in reply to eDaN

    Thx for the link eDaN !!!
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