[x]

See Where You Rank in Virginia

  1. Moderator Note: Posts related to backing and staking in poker should be placed in this thread.

    * Requests to get backed/staked should be posted in our Stakers Forum or Stakees Forum!


    I understand that people like Stu Ungar could get staked. But what do you guys that have staked people for events look for? Are you backing an ability that you dont have yourself? Are you backing another player to increase odds of one of you hitting money? Are you a ring player that is looking for something more likely than a coinflip in an event you wouldn't enter?

    Or is it like a day at the races and you just throw some money at a nag because it has a cute screen name?

    For those of you that get staked are there reasons beyond risking your roll?

    Answers greatly appreciated.
    Add Genegod to Rail
  2. Anyone asking to be staked shouldnt be staked imho... I've been staked a number of times but that is just to reduce the variance of mtts especially when the deal is something like 100/50 (they pay 100 and get 50 percent of profit) or better -- its not because i dont have the money... No matter how good you are you are going to swing alot as a full-time mtt player -- bad streaks happen to the best players. So staking is a zero risk proposition. Personally, the only people i have ever staked are good friends who i want to play more -- i would rather take a percent off of other players than get a 100/50 kind of deal from anyone (however, i might change my opinion if someone like bax wanted to get staked). Dunno if that answered any questions.
    Raise
    Add apestyles to Rail
  3. Being staked is for losers who cant build up their own roll, period.
    Add G NASTY to Rail
  4. I will very gladly be staked at 100/60 for ANY tournament or series of tournaments over 1k. The simple fact of the matter is that even if you have the talent, you need to have a HUGE bankroll to be able to handle the swings of those size tournaments, and very very very few people have that kind of disposable income.
     
    Raise
    Add GambleAB to Rail
  5. Exactly, so just don't play in them. Not until you build your way up from small tourny wins and have that disclipline to play at that level.
    Add G NASTY to Rail
  6. GNASTY, YOU ARE WAY OFF SIR IN YOUR OPINION. I KNOW IT'S UR "OPINION" BUT ITS WRONG. MOST PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS ON THE TOUR DO NOT PAY FOR MOST OF THE BUYINS OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET. A YEAR ON THE PROFESSIONAL TOURNAMENT CIRCUIT IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 500K. AB OBV KNOWS WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT, AS I AGREE WITH HIM.

    AS BARRY GREENSTEIN SAYS, ONLY AN IDIOT PLAYS POKER WITH HIS OWN MONEY
    Raise
    Add McBeasterson to Rail
  7. I think staking is a good thing. I have been staked live and online. I have made money for the stakers. I would prefer not to be staked but sometimes the cashflow is low and you need a boost. By being backed a good player can win but has to give up a large % of his winnings. the backer takes a chance but not without thorough investigation. Detailed spreadsheets and a history of winning. How many of you would not take a chance on a ranked player? Sure it is easy to say build the bankroll then play. I say get backed win and build the bankroll that way. I consider myself an above average player and I believe I can win every tournament I enter. If you can't say that then I would not back you either. just my thoughts
    1
    Raise
    Add Duff McGuire to Rail
  8. i get staked for fun, tell people i will give them everything i make i just wana play, ended up winning the 11pm on ub and giving someone 900 dollars keeping 0 for myself...just having fun with it...money doesnt matter to me...now i play on stars and people call me a beggar when asked to get staked...any p5ers wana stake me and get 100 percent of profit, hah
    Raise
    Add let me on ub to Rail
  9. I think Staking is a good thing. Take for example my situation. I have a measly paying job where I have alot of opportunities to move up in the company, therefore I stay. I play poker on the side (about 20hours a week). Due to lifes unexpected expenses it was necessary for me to take out my poker money in order to cover those expenses. I have decent skills at NL SNG's. My friend recognizes that and allowed me to play on his account and we'd split the profits I made. My ITM % is 43% after 200 SNG's. My ROI is at 22%. I have shown nothing but profit for my friend and he allows me to play under his account whenever he's not using it. Each week I get my cut and then play a little on my account and a little on his (never at the same time). It has helped me build a foundation for building my roll back up. If you don't practice proper money management you will surely go broke. I appreciate the opportunity my friend gave me because without him, i'd be playing freerolls to make $5.
     
    Raise
    Add JJDude to Rail
  10. I've never been in a staking relationship in poker, but I have been on both ends of it when I was playing pool years ago, so I know something about it.

    To Nasty, you obviously don't get it. Many of the best players in poker, such as Howard Lederer, Ted Forrest and Doyle Brunson have been well-known to stake players in games and tournaments. If you think they're losers who have to work their games up to a certain skill level...well, you're obviously just trolling for flames. Good luck with that.

    There's three main reasons that I've used when considering staking or being staked (and some of these have been mentioned before):

    1) It greatly reduces the variance that tends to come with gambling. It's important to distribute your money in action, rather than keep it all in one place and take the chance that a bad swing hurts you.

    2) It lets you take advantage of situations that otherwise might not be available to you. This isn't quite as true in poker as it was in pool...but it's still applicable in a cash-game situation. For example, I had a friend who got challenged to a game by a road player who hadn't seen "Alan" in about six months or so. Alan's game had improved tremendously in between visits from "Doug", and when I heard Alan was getting the 7 and the break, I was more than happy to stake Alan for 60%.

    3) It can be a great deal of fun...it's action, and finding the right situation to back is gambling with a better edge than you can get in any casino, from any bookie.

    As for finding a player to stake, it HAS to be someone that I've watched for a long time and I'm very familiar with their game. There were, and are (especially in my current hometown of Minneapolis) some unbeliveable pool players, guys 20x better than I am, that I wouldn't stake with a nickel. Some of them I don't know well enough to trust, some I don't like enough to enter a partnership with, and some I just don't think have a killer instinct to be a top money player. I would never stake a casual acquaintance or someone whom I don't know well enough to know exactly what's a good situation for them.
    Raise
    Add grapsfan to Rail
  11. What should I make of tournment poker when the second best tournment poker player has backers? I would never give up a piece of me in cash games because it cuts into my take. Why would the second best tournment player give up pieces in a tournment that only cost a 25/50 NL buy in? Can somebody that is good at tournments explain this to me please?
    Raise
    Add NearLive to Rail
  12. I think it says that tournament poker is not inexpensive when you put in lots of volume.
    Add computerb to Rail
  13. I've never been backed myself and would only consider being backed for live 10K events as I don't have the bankroll for them. The argument is that tournament variance is a bitch and some of these very good MTT players also seem to be lacking in bankroll management skills. Personally I think it is a leak to be backed for online tournaments.
     3
    Raise
    Add Dyzalot to Rail
  14. http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-for...Heater-3340137

    lol @ it being expensive for him
    Raise
    Add HaightMeNow to Rail
  15. right but the more the second best player plays the more he should expect to make. Why give away money he could be keeping for himself. And in fact if he doesn't want to pony up the full buy in why in the world would somebody back him if he does not believe he is going to win. Because if he did believe he was going to win he wouldn't want a backer unless he coudln't afford the buy in which is a catch 22. Is he broke. I mean if he is the second best surely he isn't broke. See why I am confused?
    Raise
    Add NearLive to Rail
  16.  
    Originally Posted by NearLive View Post

    right but the more the second best player plays the more he should expect to make. Why give away money he could be keeping for himself. And in fact if he doesn't want to pony up the full buy in why in the world would somebody back him if he does not believe he is going to win. Because if he did believe he was going to win he wouldn't want a backer unless he coudln't afford the buy in which is a catch 22. Is he broke. I mean if he is the second best surely he isn't broke. See why I am confused?

    U know what playing the WCOOP costs? 10k + 5k + 500r etc etc
    I gotta imagine he could afford it but probably wanted to hedge on such a huge investment
     
    Raise
    Add funnygut to Rail
  17. Maybe the 2nd ranked MTT playa isn't the 2nd best MTT playa after all.
    Add jtown1010 to Rail
  18. I don't believe that Alex actually had any backers for the main event. I simply think it was a tool he used to negotiate a better deal for himself. And it obviously worked.
     
    Add realsharp to Rail
  19. It says that you don't understand high stakes tournament poker.
    Add L0bstaM0bsta to Rail
  20.  
    Originally Posted by realsharp View Post


    I don't believe that Alex actually had any backers for the main event. I simply think it was a tool he used to negotiate a better deal for himself. And it obviously worked.

    100% he definitely had backers for the main event.
    Raise
    Add mattdogg2443 to Rail
  21. I have to say that I was watching wehen he said this and the first thing that popped into my head was hes gotta talk to Bax. I mean dont half these guys seek Bax out for advice?
     
    Add bigblacktruck to Rail
  22.  
    Originally Posted by L0bstaM0bsta View Post

    It says that you don't understand high stakes tournament poker.

    Add TiltinShoes to Rail
  23. he didn't mention bax
    Add Mr_BigQueso to Rail
  24. people dont realize how expensive high volume online mtts are. if i ihave a losing sunday i lose 10k or more every single time. at the end of the first sunday this month i was up 18k. just playing my regular schedule mixed in with a few sngs i was down 20k by the end of next sunday. by the end of the 3rd sunday i was down 63k. 4th sunday i was near even again...uggh. but to thinkt hat if you hit a major downswing, and arent cashing or winning anything you can exp tremendous variance. when you play all big buy ins across 5 sites you can for some of the tremendous quanity players put in 50k or more in buy ins per week. thats over 200k a month in buy ins. to get off being backed i would figure my roll needs to be over 200k to even consider it. getting a 200k roll is also significantly harder since you give up half of everythign you make. with live 10ks, traveling, mortgages and such there is just too much concievable variance and expenses especially for someone who plays a high variance style.

    sorry for not using capital letters, not sure how to do it in germany public computers
    Raise
    Add juegofacil to Rail
  25. Whats it say about tournament poker when these final tables have 11 dollar neg roi tourney players on them.
    Add xxbossmanxx to Rail
  26. why on earth would he not be backed...look at his interview on siktilt.com...they buy him into anything live or online he wants, and he doesn't have to risk his own roll. Sounds like an amazing deal/life to me, hes making all this money but if he has a down swing or whatever none of it is out of his pocket. No matter how good you are with the variance of tourny poker youd be a fool not to have a deal like his.
    Raise
    Add seanwal23 to Rail
  27. I would never take that deal.
     3
    Add Dyzalot to Rail
  28. What about makeup? Doesnt that come out of his pocket? I mean future winnings that will never make it to his pocket?
    Add Glo4m to Rail
  29. Why do people who have no idea about anything bother posting and making ridiculous assumptions?

    Highly ranked players have backers because they want to play live events too and want backing for that. In order to get backed for multiple 10K buyins, you have to give up 40 or 50% of your online action as well, that's the way it works.

    I love how everyone assumes he's backed by bax when he's not. Seriously people stop making things up when you have no idea what you're talking about.
     
    Raise
    Add mhoddi to Rail
  30.  
    Originally Posted by Glo4m View Post

    What about makeup? Doesnt that come out of his pocket? I mean future winnings that will never make it to his pocket?

    That's why I would never accept that type of backing deal. You could be up 150K online and into makeup for 200K live over a one year period. That means no income for the year as your online winnings would be going towards your live play makeup. Besides, I couldn't imagine giving up half of my online profits.
     3
    Raise
    Add Dyzalot to Rail

Similar Threads