1.  
    Originally Posted by MakeMeMaster View Post

    Play with your own money dolts.

    Don't be that guy.

    OP, you should have informed your investors that you busted from Day 1A and you intended to play a sattie. Since you didn't, the fairest thing to do would be to offer your investors the same deal for your Day 1B action, selling 50% at $30 per share.
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  2. My advice don't screw your backer...now with your percentage it's up to you if you Want to offer them any..personally I would just worry about going deep and wing it depending how much you cash...
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  3. OP, you say one of the things that is clear is that the guys that originally bought pieces think they are getting fucked. No no no, they are trying to fuck YOU by saying they should get to now freeroll. That's a bunch of shit. They bought pieces of you, you busted the tournament, that's the end of it. Just because the next tournament you played happened to be a satellite to the one you just busted from is irrelevant. Please don't fall for this.

    I've never been backed and have no experience in backing, so my heated rant should hold little credibility other than the fact that I always just try and read these threads from a purely logical standpoint, and this one screams the appropriate play is to say "Nice try guys, I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. Sorry I busted, but just cuz I feel bad doesn't mean I'm gonna let you now freeroll." In fact, I'd very quickly start to get pissed at their angleshoot.

    It's easy to tell you know what the right thing to do is. You owe them nothing. Be a man and stand behind that fact.

    Edit: And I understand you don't want to lose friends over money, but any time someone has tried to screw me out of money, which to me it is completely obvious that's what your friends are doing here, when I don't give in, they don't just stay pissed at me...The know they are the ones trying to screw you, and they will eventually want to make up just as you will, if for no other reason than to try and screw you again down the line.
    Edited By: fairyhoppin69 Apr 26th, 2011 at 03:39 PM
    Reason: the screwers don't stay pissed at the screwee
     
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  4.  
    Originally Posted by pjformella View Post

    OP, you say one of the things that is clear is that the guys that originally bought pieces think they are getting fucked. No no no, they are trying to fuck YOU by saying they should get to now freeroll. That's a bunch of shit. They bought pieces of you, you busted the tournament, that's the end of it. Just because the next tournament you played happened to be a satellite to the one you just busted from is irrelevant. Please don't fall for this.

    I've never been backed and have no experience in backing, so my heated rant should hold little credibility other than the fact that I always just try and read these threads from a purely logical standpoint, and this one screams the appropriate play is to say "Nice try guys, I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. Sorry I busted, but just cuz I feel bad doesn't mean I'm gonna let you now freeroll." In fact, I'd very quickly start to get pissed at their angleshoot.

    It's easy to tell you know what the right thing to do is. You owe them nothing. Be a man and stand behind that fact.

    Agree, the backer is angle shooting here.
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  5. Friends feel entitled. Seems to be a lot of people who feel this way nowadays.

    I am a backer, and I do buy pieces of players in this exact same way. I would definitely want to buy piece of satellite in this instance, but I would have discussed it prior to. i would not feel entitled to it at all.

    You owe nothing. If you pay you are enabling them to try to pull this on you and others in the future.
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  6. My proposed resolution: I offered to let them buy half of their day 1A action at no markup ($27 for 1%), going into day 2 6th in chips. Obv -EV for me, but I am comfortable w/ this offer, although I still don't feel I did anything wrong.

    Does everyone agree this offer is more than fair/reasonable?

    I appreciate all the feedback here, I thought I was going crazy last night.
    Edited By: elusively Apr 26th, 2011 at 05:40 PM
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  7.  
    Originally Posted by elusively View Post

    My proposed resolution: I offered to let them buy half of their day 1A action at no markup ($27 for 1%), going into day 2 6th in chips. Obv -EV for me, but I am comfortable w/ this offer, although I still don't feel I did anything wrong.

    Does everyone agree this offer is more than fair/reasonable?

    I appreciate all the feedback here, I thought I was going crazy last night.

    sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    and to answer your question, no i don't think it's reasonable. I think you need to take them all to disneyworld too.
     
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  8. I am going to be hitting the road, and getting a one way flight to where I will be playing. I have a backer for cash games, and will be living for free. Essentially only having to pay for meals and entertainment (which should be a minimum for a little while, because of the grind time at first). I will be getting backed for 200NL at first probably, because the backer doesnt know my style of play all that well and will want me to prove myself. Probably jumping between 500NL as well, in which he will be putting up all my action. I have done this a few times in live cash games, and have always done 50/50. However in this certian situation I made an offer to give 65% for the first week, and take %35 of my winnings. Because this backer is basically doing me a favor.

    I was just curious how if anyone has done this what is the 'standard' stipulations and how make up works and everything? What would be fare to ask for in a 200NL game per day, and obviously what the stop loss is usually set at. I would imagine if I lost more the 10 BI's at either limit I would not be successful at the games and probably head back home. However I am pretty confident in my ability to minimize losses and maximize winning sessions, so I dont foresee this happening. Although I know it could. Basically just looking for some general backing guidelines, and how people have had success and ease between partners in doing it.

    CLIFF NOTE QUESTIONS

    -If being backed for 200NL does the backer hand the player 2k, and report winnings? Should the backer only allow 1-2BI's at a time (on a per day basis). What is the most profitable way for the backer to do this. Assuming the player is competent and trustworthy.

    -When in make up. e.g. Horse loses -$230 first day, and wins $330 the next day. Essentially the horse has pocketed $35 (assuming he is taking %35)? I believe this to be correct I am just looking for some reasurance.

    -Say the Horse is backed for 2 weeks. Has profited 1k in his %35/%50 cut. Decides to play on his own after knowing he can beat the games. Is it unethical to leave the backer and play on his own to keep total winnings? Does there need to be a timely agreement before the Horse starts running of how long he is on 'Contract"?

    Obviously if I am killing the games after 2-3 weeks, and have run above expectation and made 10-15 BI's and felt comfortable grinding the 200nl with that, I would want to do that to keep my maximum profit. I am just unsure if this is kind of slapping my backer in the face or how this usually is handled?

    Any successful backers or backeys post would be helpful.
    Edited By: Bake Me A Apr 27th, 2011 at 12:18 AM
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  9. MMM is pretty much right, backing is for losers
     
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  10.  
    Originally Posted by Bake Me A View Post

    Obviously if I am killing the games after 2-3 weeks, and have run above expectation and made 10-15 BI's and felt comfortable grinding the 200nl with that, I would want to do that to keep my maximum profit. I am just unsure if this is kind of slapping my backer in the face or how this usually is handled?

    Any successful backers or backeys post would be helpful.


    u made profit, he made profit, both players/parties can be very happy

     
    Originally Posted by unta View Post

    MMM is pretty much right, backing is for losers


    and u r an idiot

     
    Originally Posted by iPlayTourneys View Post

    and u r an idiot


    And so is MMM, but whats new w/that
    Edited By: iPlayTourneys Apr 27th, 2011 at 01:12 AM
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  11. I am not in this scenario. Just curious as to what most people agree on. Let's say you are getting backed and you are in make up. This backer drops you even though you are in make up. Then several years,weeks, months later down the road decides they want to start staking you again. As a player or staker would you start a new stake or would you roll over the make up?
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  12. Those who use to back online poker players but cant anymore due to black friday, have you given it any thought to backing people in other professions/industries to continue to keep your cash flow coming in until online poker is restored here in the USA?
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  13. Backing leads to cash flow coming in?
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  14. What other professions/industries would you back ppl in? Just curious
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  15. in what not? Everything with money ppl are being backed. If i want to start a bakery or a real estate agency but have 0 money... ppl who invest in me, are my backers..
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  16. Hey guys i found a guy in my area who may be willing to back me for live cash games. He seems like he really wants to but the one thing holding him back is the trust factor. I do not know the guy personally, he is a semi-retired business man who plays poker recreationaly , so i totally understand how he has issues regarding trust. So my question to you guys is what is the best way to build a trust base? What can i do to make him trust me and give me a shot? I have provided him with some references, but he doesn't know these people either so it doesn't really help too much. Any suggestions are welcome!
    Edited By: jppp5039 Jun 30th, 2011 at 08:40 PM
     
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  17. jppp,

    Where would you be playing these live cash games? I have a horse I back for local cash games in this area. If you are going to play at a casino, it's much more of a trust factor. If you are going to play at local games, where someone from the house runs the game, you can have your backer contact the person from the house and inform him of the situation. Your backer will have the option of checking in with the house to see how much you bought in and cashed out for. It's an easy checks and balances system.
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  18. OneM24,

    Just about all of the games would be at a casino. Either Harrah's Chester, Parx, and the occasional trip down to Atlantic City. I don't really know of too many good local games where we could run that checks and balances system. It really sucks to find someone who is like 90% on board for backng me for $2/5 NL, and then lose it because of this. I gotta find some way to gain his trust. Thanks for the input on the local games tho!
     
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  19. I've just joined a local home group that will play once a month for 1 year, and will send the points leader to the WSOP Main Event in the Summer of 2012. If the home group hero cashes, that person will keep 60% of the winnings, while the remaining 40% will go to the other group members.

    I have a friend sponsoring me in this monthly tournament ($60 per month). I need to come to an agreement with him on a fair chop of the 60% if I win this thing, represent our group at the 2012 Main Event and cash (alot of "if's"). Anyway, the only thing I'm investing over the next year is time and the cost of gas to travel 30 mins. to the monthly games.

    So what's a fair split % of the 60% that I should chop with the friend who's paying for me to freeroll in this league over the next year? Is there a usual and customary % in situations like this?

    Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!
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  20. I'm no staking expert, but I personally would say give him half of your cut. Therefore:

    You - 30%
    Friend - 30%
    Other Group Members - 40%

    That's just my 2 cents, there's no number set in stone. Obviously the more for you the better.
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  21.  
    Originally Posted by RogerO3 View Post

    I'm no staking expert, but I personally would say give him half of your cut. Therefore:

    You - 30%
    Friend - 30%
    Other Group Members - 40%

    That's just my 2 cents, there's no number set in stone. Obviously the more for you the better.

    This.
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  22. Well I would say the lowest he's willing to take, but since this is more of a friendly thing than a strictly business move, you should come to something you both find fair and reasonable.

    I did some back of the envelope calculations and it looks just about impossible that your backer could have a long-term positive ROI with this arrangement, unless you just dominate the other people from the club and the tournaments are set up to give you time to exert that advantage. I assume there are around 15 people in the club? If we're generous and give you a 1-in-7 chance of making it to the Main Event, and give you an ROI there of breakeven +/- 10%, then your backer could basically recoup with a 50/10 split (with the other 40 going to your club).

    I'd say half the cut seems fair though, if just for its simplicity. And I think the guy would most likely take it, if he's doing this just kind of as a casual lark. Apologies if any of my calculations or the assumptions they are predicated on are wrong.
     
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  23. im staking a player in a 1/2 game but just half of the buy in . so 100 bucks of the 200 .....what is a fair cut on that percentage wise?
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  24.  
    Originally Posted by Marc Nellist View Post

    im staking a player in a 1/2 game but just half of the buy in . so 100 bucks of the 200 .....what is a fair cut on that percentage wise?

    Sick stake Marc....... I really dont know. You leave a lot of details out. Is this a one time stake? How often is this game? What kind of results has the stakee have? Are you staking hiim for anything else? Is there makeup?
     
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  25. Can anyone tell me how staking/backing works? Does somone spot you a certain amount to play with, then anything you make over the amount he stakes you with is profit right? So, do you just cash that out and split it, like every week? Then you start back at the amount staked again? Say if your staked 2k, then you loose 500, do you have to pay back that 500 to be able to start making profit again? Because if that is true, then it is like playing with borrowed money and not staked money correct? Or is that the same thing? Because if you are staked and have to pay back full make up, then you are taking all the risk while he gets to sit back and just collect money. So should players pay back half the make up then? Would that be fair?
     
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  26. it depends what % you agree on and if there is makeup or not..if you get staked 1k w/ makeup at a 50/50 split, when u get to 3k and split u would get 1/2 profit-1000..if you quit at 500 you would owe 500 in makeup in future stakes or you can buy it out

    sometimes people do no-makeup stakes and get a smaller cut
    Edited By: dangitisuck Aug 1st, 2011 at 06:04 AM
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  27. any other ways people work it?
     
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  28. Before BF i quit a very nice job to pursue a poker career. Since BF i have been unsucessful in finding a job and blew through my bankroll. I am a consistent winning player and am wondering what steps I should take in order to be backed. Any and all help would be much appreciated. Thx
     
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  29. Sorry if this is a repost or if it is in the wrong place but I was wondering what the norm was... If you are being backed for a tournament and you hit big, do you take the taxes off of the top before dividing up the winnings? Or is paying the taxes the responsibility of the player?
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  30. Usually you settle this issue before you enter into a staking agreement- I have no experience with large live scores but some venues withold taxes right away.
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