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Bad play by me...or bad call by opponent?

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  1. Palomino Palomino is offline

    Hugo, MN
    United States

    Posts: 43
    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 23rd, 2006 (10/23/2006 4:08pm)

    I played in a turbo style live tournament yesterday. I was really steaming after I went out because I thought that my opponent made a very loose/bad call. After going over it after I cooled off, I'm not sure. Let me know what you think (I obviously don't have a HH since it was a live tourney).

    Blinds 400-800 ante 100. I have just over 5k (M about 2.3) and UTG has about 7k. (90% of people left in tourney are short-stacked due to structure..I was just under the average chip stack...lol, nice tourney). UTG min raises (this had been going on a lot since the blinds were so large and people were not willing to put in a lot of chips preflop...also, a lot of novices in tourney). MP cold calls...everyone else folds. 5.4k in pot...i only need to call 800 more...so i call with 89o. This leaves me w/ about 3500. flop comes 37T rainbow. I'm first to act...I figure if UTG has 2 overs I can push all in and get her to fold, if she has overpair, then I still have outs. So I push. UTG thinks for a few minutes and calls...MP folds. UTG flips over KQo. I am shocked, since it was for most of her remaining chips...and the KQ holds up.

    So, my question is...should I have folded preflop, check folded flop (I think not)...or pushed preflop. Did UTG make a horrible call...or a great read??I believe she was getting only 2.77:1 odds...not enough in my opinion unless I was on a draw.

    Sorry, kinda long...but I would love to know people's thoughts....
  2. TheMayor TheMayor is offline

    Boston, MA
    United States

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    Oct 23rd, 2006 (10/23/2006 4:28pm) in reply to Palomino

    You're in the BB for 800, with 4200 behind. And you call a minraise with 89o? Imo you need to go ahead and just fold this pre flop. Honestly you aren't gonna get a good enough flop often enough to make calling profitable. And with only 3400 chips and a pot of over 4.5k, you aren't going to be able to make very many hands fold. Imo fold this one, leave yourself 5 big blinds, and get ready to push allin any chance you get with a decent starting hand and some fold equity when you are opening the pot.

    Actually, KQo is one of the only hands that could possibly fold in this spot. I agree your opponent made a bad loose call for sure here. Even if all you have is a pair of three's, she needs a little better than 3:1 (3.12:1 i think?) to call...And when it's for your whole stack, pot odds don't really play as big a role as they do in a cash game. Bad call by her but I think you put yourself in a bad spot by calling that raise to begin with.
  3. Palomino Palomino is offline

    Hugo, MN
    United States

    Posts: 43
    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 23rd, 2006 (10/23/2006 4:48pm) in reply to TheMayor

    That's kinda what I had been thinking. I was going to fold if the whole table folded to UTG, but when someone else called it gave me such good pot odds. In hindsight...I should have folded. That flop was about the best flop that I could have seen, and it still wasn't great. I understand the difference between late tournament pot odds and cash game pot odds, and I should have taken that into account more.

    I was totally steaming after the loss (notice, I didn't say bad beat...although some people thought I was steaming over a bad beat) and sat down at a 6/12 limit table. The guys there were nice enough to buy me a drink to cool off, and I was lucky enough to win my tourney buy-in back at the cash tables :)
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  4. ThereIsNo ThereIsNo is offline

    Dahlonega, GA
    United States

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    Oct 23rd, 2006 (10/23/2006 8:12pm) in reply to Palomino

    You can not flat call there with 89o with your chip stack and the % of your stack it is going to cost you. I think folding is the only play pre flop you can make. If you shove she's getting monster odds to call you with any hand that was a legit raising hand, and if she called you with KQ on the flop she's certainly calling with it pre flop. Nothing wrong with the way you played it on the flop, ugly call by her but that stuff happens. When you get roughly 6BB you need to be open shoving alot almost any two if it gets folded around to you, and flat calling anything preflop with that stack and those blinds is out of the question.

    Hope that helps some
  5. Palomino Palomino is offline

    Hugo, MN
    United States

    Posts: 43
    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 10:45am) in reply to ThereIsNo

    Sounds like everyone is in agreement. I play mostly limit cash games, but have done well in NL tourneys (at the low limits). Part of me knew to fold preflop...but the cash game part of me told me the odds were too good and I should see a flop. Next time I play a tourney, I'm going to "turn off" the cash game part of my poker brain...well maybe not completely off...
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