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Bad push with TT pre?

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  1. foldpreflop85 foldpreflop85 is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 6
    Joined: Oct 06

    Apr 22nd, 2008 (4/22/2008 12:57am)

    In the $69+6, 20k on Bodog. <span> </span>Blinds at 200/400 with a 50 ante.<span> </span>Average is 11k.<span> </span>UTG+1 raises to 1k and started the hand with 6.8k. <span> </span>UTG+1 is a break-even player with an average buy-in of $95 and is fairly loose. <span> </span>Button has 13.2k and calls.<span> </span>Button is fairly passive and plays straightforward. <span>I'm sure the button is reraising with any big pair. </span>I’m in the BB with 12.1k and TT. <span> </span>I shove and UTG+1 autocalls with AA.<span> </span>Obviously the button folds. Good push/bad push? <span> </span>What should I be doing here? Fort what it's worth, the flop was rainbow and J-hi. Also, is there an amount I can reraise that doesn't make me pot committed at this point?
     
  2. Mattraq1 Mattraq1 is offline

    Posts: 1,187
    Joined: Oct 07

    Apr 22nd, 2008 (4/22/2008 6:24am) in reply to foldpreflop85

    insta shove, ul, gg, register for the next one.
  3. sotti sotti is offline

    Portland, OR
    United States

    Posts: 1,342
    Joined: Sep 06

    Apr 22nd, 2008 (4/22/2008 11:57am) in reply to foldpreflop85

    I think that's a good spot to call. If the villian has AK, AQ, AJ these are hands that may call your shove but will miss the flop ALOT. If the villian has AA, KK, QQ and maybe JJ they are calling your shove 100%.

    So if you just call and the flop is low, you can pickup the pot with a solid bet (maybe shove), and the hands that you were in big trouble against are still going to call = no change, but the two big card hands now won't have the odds to call you. Or if they do are making a much bigger mistake, as opposed to if you shove and they are like I htink he has 88 I'm calling.

    with 3000 chips in the pot already I can see how shoving with 12K seems a decent idea it is 25% of you stack and a reraise to 3-4K would come close to giving odds to call an all in from the UTG+a player anyway. So I don't like a raise, and TT is to strong to fold.

    So the two options are reraise all-in, and call. On the balance I think I like the call.
  4. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

    Posts: 6,364
    Joined: Mar 06

    Apr 22nd, 2008 (4/22/2008 12:05pm) in reply to sotti

    I think this is a horrible spot to flat call unless you don't want to play this hand outside of set value. 1010 is ugly since almost every flop will have an over (several may have 2) and even if there isn't an over, you can still be way behind.

    This is basically a squeeze play your doing here. The problem with the squeeze is always that first player. You had a perfect read on the button, but there is always the risk that UTG+1 has a monster.

    As far as a reraise, not really. If you make it 3k to go, if UTG pushes, you are calling, heck, you practically call if he flips over AA, and the fact that AK may play the exact same way, you have to call. But, what if he gets tricky and flats, then button has odds to draw on you, and you are in trouble on most flops.

    So, I like your play, just unlucky that he had the monster hand.
  5. foldpreflop85 foldpreflop85 is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 6
    Joined: Oct 06

    Apr 22nd, 2008 (4/22/2008 12:42pm) in reply to lordxixor101

    Thank you guys for the insights. I could obviously see this one going either way, but at the time I favored a push. The real issue is that I didn't want to see a flop 3-way oop with TT. If I flat call, I still have no idea where I'm at and am forced to c-bet to take down the pot. From that point, any resistance would result in me folding, giving 2 players the perfect opportunity to bluff me if by some miracle they both missed. And worst of all, if I c-bet the flop and get flat called, I'm still confused about where I'm at with a pot that is now well beyond push worthy.

    I understand that calling there is a good way to reduce variance, but that's only assuming that I will check/fold a flop with an over. Leading into 2 players with an over out and no information about their hands is borderline suicide, so I would have check/folded almost all flops. I agree that calling there is too passive, but after the fact I wasn't sure if there was a way to justify it. Thanks to everyone for your insights.
     
    Thread Starter
  6. stover04 stover04 is offline

    Napoleon, OH
    United States

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    Apr 23rd, 2008 (4/23/2008 11:16pm) in reply to foldpreflop85

    I honestly think this push is spewy. UTG +1 raised the pot 2.5xish that seems like a pretty weak raise in my book with pretty good position. Then you get a flat call that would grab my attention. So I think you either have to A.) re-raise to 3.5k or B.) Flat call, hope to hit a set and readjust you strategy for the remainder of the hand. I think risking your whole stack or a large portion when you have 30 BB is not needed.
  7. Briplay Briplay is offline

    Raleigh, NC
    United States

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    Apr 24th, 2008 (4/24/2008 11:48pm) in reply to sotti

    ditto
  8. Bulldogmafia Bulldogmafia is offline

    Marietta, GA
    United States

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    Apr 25th, 2008 (4/25/2008 10:57am) in reply to foldpreflop85

    Given your read of UTG being loose and your M I like the push / squeeze play.
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