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Bad shove deep in 320?

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  1. slimschicken slimschicken is offline

    Fayetteville, AR
    United States

    Posts: 63
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:02pm)

    *********** # 301 **************
    pokerstars Game #11014745242: Tournament #55435247, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (500/1000) - 2007/07/19 - 01:12:52 (ET)
    Table '55435247 48' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: LuckySharkPT (27572 in chips)
    Seat 2: josh prager (42809 in chips)
    Seat 3: SlimsChicken (13079 in chips)
    Seat 4: KidDoc (23250 in chips)
    Seat 5: Afrodaviac (37022 in chips)
    Seat 6: TATHORN (33417 in chips)
    Seat 7: xthesteinx (37547 in chips)
    Seat 8: Disgracer1 (25350 in chips)
    Seat 9: jayjayme (44829 in chips)
    LuckySharkPT: posts the ante 50
    josh prager: posts the ante 50
    SlimsChicken: posts the ante 50
    KidDoc: posts the ante 50
    Afrodaviac: posts the ante 50
    TATHORN: posts the ante 50
    xthesteinx: posts the ante 50
    Disgracer1: posts the ante 50
    jayjayme: posts the ante 50
    josh prager: posts small blind 500
    SlimsChicken: posts big blind 1000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to SlimsChicken [2s 2c]
    KidDoc: folds
    Afrodaviac: folds
    TATHORN: folds
    xthesteinx: raises 1500 to 2500
    Disgracer1: folds
    jayjayme: folds
    LuckySharkPT: folds
    josh prager: folds
    SlimsChicken: raises 10529 to 13029 and is all-in
    xthesteinx: calls 10529
    *** FLOP *** [6c 7d Ts]
    *** TURN *** [6c 7d Ts] [Td]
    *** RIVER *** [6c 7d Ts Td] [4c]
    SlimsChicken said, "gaaa"
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    SlimsChicken: shows [2s 2c] (two pair, Tens and Deuces)
    xthesteinx: shows [Ac Ad] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
    SlimsChicken said, "gg"
    Kcannon [observer] said, "lul at u making a move on stein"
    Kcannon [observer] said, "gg"
    xthesteinx collected 27008 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 27008 | Rake 0
    Board [6c 7d Ts Td 4c]
    Seat 1: LuckySharkPT (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: josh prager (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: SlimsChicken (big blind) showed [2s 2c] and lost with two pair, Tens and Deuces
    Seat 4: KidDoc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Afrodaviac folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: TATHORN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: xthesteinx showed [Ac Ad] and won (27008) with two pair, Aces and Tens
    Seat 8: Disgracer1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: jayjayme folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     
  2. doubledave22 doubledave22 is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:24pm) in reply to slimschicken

    ur image his image??? Looks like u had time to wait... plus it wasnt like he was late pos. IDK seems a little mediocre to me.
     1
  3. slimschicken slimschicken is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:30pm) in reply to doubledave22

    He had just won a huge pot, thought he might start opening his range up a bit more and pushing around the table (oops), but i had a pretty tight image tho...
     
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  4. TH32NDCOMING TH32NDCOMING is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:32pm) in reply to slimschicken

    anytime stein raises you fold. its a known fact. really one of the tightest players ive ever seen
  5. cbronco101 cbronco101 is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:36pm) in reply to slimschicken

    even regardless of images...u have an M of about 6, with an open raise in front of u, pocket 2s might as well be 56 suited, u obv didnt want a call, especially from over pair...this is def a situation where u wait for a better spot imo
  6. wny2nyc47 wny2nyc47 is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:43pm) in reply to slimschicken

    You've got zero fold equity against an EP raiser who happens to be a good player. He's going to make the 2-1 call 90% of the time with any 2 cards. 22 is a hand you want no action from. The way you set it up, you're almost guaranteed to get it. Fold.
  7. az1969 az1969 is offline

    Phoenix, AZ
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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:43pm) in reply to slimschicken

    I think KCannnon hit the nail on the head.

    Instafold....
  8. 2_Towers 2_Towers is online now

    Dallas, TX
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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:43pm) in reply to wny2nyc47

    If it works it good and if it doesn't its bad
  9. Camz Camz is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:44pm) in reply to slimschicken

    QJ suited is a favorite over 22 preflop. FOLD this crappy hand.
  10. slimschicken slimschicken is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:47pm) in reply to Camz

    WoW lol, good responses....
     
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  11. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:52pm) in reply to slimschicken

    Never expect quality thoughtful responses from the randoms in PD.

    Loose shove, but fine shove. Kcannon is retarded and just blindly defends stein in all situations, so obviously ignore that. I don't know stein's exact openingrange / calling range for this shove to be profitable, but it cant be that far from +ev if it isn't already. I probably fold in that spot... probably shove on cutoff or so. I'm not sure but you can't really be faulted for making this play.

    <3 SlimsChicken
     13
  12. Kcannon Kcannon is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 2:55pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    <3 you too SC
     
  13. Tim0thee Tim0thee is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 3:50pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    Yeah, I actually got the impression that stein isn't that tight and that his range is pretty wide with a bigger stack, but I'm probably wrong after all the times playing with him.. oops..

    Anyways, I don't mind the shove if you don't mind racing, a ton of the time in this spot it's a coinflip and then you don't even have to post about your shove, it's all situational and this time he happened to have Aces..

    It is a gamb00ly shove, and sometimes I shove here and sometimes I muck to find a better spot.. but probably the majority of the time I try to find a better spot..
     
  14. slimschicken slimschicken is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 3:59pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    Ty SCT, lol on kcannon, and congrats on the ME!

    <3 SCTrojans
     
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  15. jpapola jpapola is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 4:12pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    his range is close to any 2 at this table
     1
  16. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 4:14pm) in reply to slimschicken

    I don't know if anyone who replied in this thread understands the concept of fold equity, of which you had plenty.
     13
  17. gbmantis gbmantis is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 4:17pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    I like the shove
    1
  18. pokerjamers pokerjamers is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 4:26pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    I don't think there is any doubt he has fold equity in this spot, but he's still getting a wider ranger of calls since stein will be getting about 1.7:1, or something around there. He'll be calling with any pairs, which is a awful situation for you. I agree with SCT that I'd rather be shoving here from the button or cutoff. But, I can see myself making this shove from anywhere from Hijack to BB depending on the mood I'm in. No shame in folding either though.
    299 
  19. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 4:44pm) in reply to slimschicken

    I dunno where you guys are getting these 2-1 and 1.7-1 numbers, but hes getting slightly over 1.5-1 to call. I doub't steins calling range is wider than AJ+ and probably around 66 or 77+, I'm not sure.

    It all comes down to how many hands stein is opening from this position. I wouldn't be surprised if he is opening all broadway A8+ all suited aces all pairs, which makes this almost undoubtedly a +ev shove with 22.

    You guys make it sound like stein is calling almost any two cards which is absurd.

    He knows that SlimsChicken is shoving on his MP raise, and he is getting 1.55-1 or so on his call, which by no means has him "priced in" with hands much weaker than the range I posted.
     13
  20. darkcheck_ darkcheck_ is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 4:45pm) in reply to wny2nyc47

    you should def. reread the def of fold equity over again and take a look at some examples bc there is plenty of it here but that doesnt guar. you a fold....semi tough spot and i dont mind the push but stein seems to always have fuckin aces
     
  21. pokerjamers pokerjamers is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 4:52pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    16.5:10.5 ~ 1.6:1

    The exact odds seem a bit irrelevant as I highly doubt Stein is doing the precise math before making a decision.
    299 
  22. Kcannon Kcannon is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 5:02pm) in reply to pokerjamers

    Knowing how stein plays, I do not think this is a bad shove in the long range, I am not going to give out all the secrets but I will say that I think this is probably a +ev shove in the long range
     
  23. tnsstud tnsstud is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 5:19pm) in reply to Kcannon

    I 100% agree with SC, but I definately like being the first one in if I am pushing with 22 or the like. I wait for a better spot where I can be the first in.
     
  24. amak316 amak316 is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 5:48pm) in reply to tnsstud

    rank slims chicken immediately.

    This shove is far from a standard play, given table positions, but i think its still slightly +EV, as sctrojans said, its not a play i would personally make often, but its the kind of play that works well against alot of good players (which stein definately is). Theres definately a few players that love the EP steal, and even if its not an EP steal its tough to call reshoves with many hands in your EP opening range because no one really expects to get restolen from if they raise in early position. (read AJ-AQ, KQ, 22-55)

    I like the play and i <3 slimschicken.

    P.S how much of his timebank did stein use before he made the call?

    EDIT: more early-middle position than i thought when i reread it but that doesnt change much
     
  25. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 5:49pm) in reply to amak316

    ^^^loool
     13
  26. bballin04 bballin04 is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 6:27pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    i think the shove is fine, you have plenty of FE. However, the structure of the 320 is sooo good, u could prob find a better spot with 13 bb's. I was shortstacked plenty yesterday and the structure greatly helped. Also, I just hate getting it in with dueces :)
     
  27. slimschicken slimschicken is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 6:35pm) in reply to amak316

    Lol amak, i was very dissappointed that I didn't get the famous stein slowroll actually.
    And me and stein have a little history behind those deuces lol setmining....
     
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  28. xxjondxx xxjondxx is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 6:37pm) in reply to slimschicken

    shoving small pairs is suicide
     11
  29. stpauli111 stpauli111 is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2007 (7/19/2007 6:40pm) in reply to slimschicken

    lol setmine-aments

    lol@ stein being tight

    i believe the correct play here is actually to call and see a safe flop (preferrably one with 0 overs) and then throw in a minraise somewhere.
    182 11
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