Ok I won a few tourneys at PS in the last 2 months and have a BR of about 1K. I have read about the BR mangment and all the great articles. I started playing .50/1 which is above my optimum stakes according to BR. Had some success for a week then bad run puts me back to 650 dlls. I decide to go down to .25/.50 NL made a few bucks then another cold run puts me at 500 dlls. (My pocket pairs are not hitting sets, too many overcards on flop AK doesn't hit etc.) So I decided to play 2/4 NL with a 500 BR. I play my same game as in the other limits and make 200 dlls in 30 mins then I leave. Go back to .25/ 50 NL lose like a 100 and decide to try 2/4 NL again. Made my 1K back and just leave the table. Maybe I got lucky and hit good cards but I seem to do better at this level. People are smart enough to realize their beat and don't chase to the river also, they like to bluff when I have the goodies and If i don't hit a good flop I just throw away my hand. I wish I had the BR to keep playing at this levels but for now I'll just keep doing hit and runs. I'm going to go back to the 3 and 5 NL tourneys in PS. I'm sure my BR is good for these buy ins and I know if I keep playing 2/4 NL I'll go bust eventually.

I consider 1K my BR since this is my poker money and I would be ok if I lose it. I have some savings but don't want to put that money into Poker yet.

What should be the optimal tourney buy ins and ring games for my BR. Any comments greatly appreciatted?

I agree completely with noneedtobluf. Even the 25 cents/50 cents NL game is a bit too high for you. In your situation, I would suggest playing SNGs to build up your bankroll. Start with the $5 SNGs to gain some practice and experience and then move up to the $10 SNGs. Once you feel as if you are destorying them, take on the $20 SNGs, but go no higher! With $1,000 as your total roll, you have 50 buy ins for your $20 SNGs. That should be enough to deal with variance if you are a winning player.

Good luck and keep us posted with how you do.

- RT

I was crushing the 5 and 10 dlls S&G at absolute poker at one time, then move to PS and can't win a sit and go to save my life. Build a big stack early bully the table at level 4 or 5 and start stealing blinds they get mad and star calling me or reraising me and donk my stack away. That or I wait for a big hand put my chips in preflop and lose to a donk, other times run incredible cold like 72 3 times in a row followed by 23. I'm serious I played like 40 sit and goes and only won like 5 at PS. I rather play HU for 5 and 10 I seem to do good on those specially the 4 HU S&G. The level of play between 5 -20 S&G is way different on 5 S&G you get 2 or 3 callers to a normal raise on 20 S&G is like if they could see your hole cards. Make a standard raise and everybody folds.

I know that you want to have bad players at your table to make money, but for some reason I seem to do better at higher stakes. I just can't believe the donks calling a pot raise on the turn with a flush draw and they still call me and get it uhhh. You are supposed to make them pay for their draws and not give them the odds to call but at these level the donks don't even know how to spell POKER and just call with anything. That's where's my edge kicks in with good players since I don't give them the odds to chase and they fold.

Obviously I'm not a great player just about average, but I just hate it when someone makes a terrible call and get their miracle card on the river. Sometimes I just think I have terrible luck for example I have AK on the cutoff 2nd pos makes a raise of 4 K 3rd re raise to 9K I have a stack of 24 K on a 11 dll rebuy at PS Average stack is 35K. I have a chance to triple up so I go all in with AK 2nd calls all in and 3 calls both show AQ so lets see AK vs AQ is 4 to 1 so Im like 8 to 1 favorite and Lee Jones gg me with a Q on flop. I have been really close to take one of these tourneys down. I'll just keep trying so far my reads are right on and go in with the best hand I guess the pokergods hate me.

pokerstars Game #4659214691: Tournament #23113414, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2006/04/17 - 20:14:42 (ET)
Table '23113414 54' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: chiefjustis (97740 in chips)
Seat 2: sherman58 (37953 in chips)
Seat 3: onasis16 (51819 in chips)
Seat 4: butch_dk (44508 in chips)
Seat 5: theTaxMan75' (98829 in chips)
Seat 6: PrtyPsux (72193 in chips)
Seat 7: Commander25 (56518 in chips)
Seat 8: IVIaximus (36505 in chips)
Seat 9: lusciouslily (60480 in chips)
chiefjustis: posts the ante 100
sherman58: posts the ante 100
onasis16: posts the ante 100
butch_dk: posts the ante 100
theTaxMan75': posts the ante 100
PrtyPsux: posts the ante 100
Commander25: posts the ante 100
IVIaximus: posts the ante 100
lusciouslily: posts the ante 100
Commander25: posts small blind 1000
IVIaximus: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IVIaximus [Qd Qh]
lusciouslily: folds
chiefjustis: folds
sherman58: raises 4000 to 6000
onasis16: folds
butch_dk: folds
theTaxMan75': folds
PrtyPsux: folds
theTaxMan75' said, "tony i need back up"
Commander25: folds
IVIaximus: raises 8000 to 14000
sherman58: raises 23853 to 37853 and is all-in
IVIaximus: calls 22405 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [Tc 4s 6d]
*** TURN *** [Tc 4s 6d] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [Tc 4s 6d 8c] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IVIaximus: shows [Qd Qh] (a pair of Queens)
sherman58: shows [9h 9s] (a straight, Six to Ten)
sherman58 collected 74710 from pot

If you were crushing SNGs on Absolute, why not go back there?

BTW: You're underbankrolled for $.25/.50, much less $2/4.

I'd consider $10k the absolute minimum bankroll for $2/4, and that's still risky.

Lost 300 hundred at .50 / 1 nl AA runs in to trip K's KK in to st8 dunks outplaying me

going back to 2 /4 NL rather play people at my level at PS right now

pokerstars Game #4675514167: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/04/19 - 11:18:02 (ET)
Table 'Hecuba' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: wupa ($100 in chips)
Seat 2: Wish24 ($102.80 in chips)
Seat 3: Tomtender ($149.60 in chips)
Seat 4: RBSurfer ($97.75 in chips)
Seat 5: WCGplayer ($104 in chips)
Seat 6: IVIaximus ($94.60 in chips)
Seat 7: DoyleeAdept ($66.60 in chips)
Seat 8: beatdown2 ($149.10 in chips)
Seat 9: Xpector ($106.70 in chips)
WCGplayer: posts small blind $0.50
IVIaximus: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IVIaximus [Kc Ks]
DoyleeAdept: folds
beatdown2: calls $1
Xpector: folds
wupa: calls $1
Wish24: folds
Tomtender: folds
RBSurfer: folds
WCGplayer: folds
IVIaximus: raises $3 to $4
beatdown2: calls $3
wupa: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 3d Th]
IVIaximus: bets $4
beatdown2: calls $4
*** TURN *** [8d 3d Th] [7d]
IVIaximus: bets $16
beatdown2: calls $16
*** RIVER *** [8d 3d Th 7d] [3h]
IVIaximus: bets $70.60 and is all-in
beatdown2: calls $70.60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IVIaximus: shows [Kc Ks] (two pair, Kings and Threes)
beatdown2: shows [9h 6h] (a straight, Six to Ten)
beatdown2 collected $187.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $190.70 | Rake $3
Board [8d 3d Th 7d 3h]
Seat 1: wupa folded before Flop
Seat 2: Wish24 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Tomtender folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: RBSurfer (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: WCGplayer (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: IVIaximus (big blind) showed [Kc Ks] and lost with two pair, Kings and Threes
Seat 7: DoyleeAdept folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: beatdown2 showed [9h 6h] and won ($187.70) with a straight, Six to Ten
Seat 9: Xpector folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Game #4675234165: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/04/19 - 10:15:10 (ET)
Table 'Posnania' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: IVIaximus ($80.20 in chips)
Seat 2: shaka1117 ($89.35 in chips)
Seat 3: LuckyRiver18 ($23.80 in chips)
Seat 4: bblouie ($40 in chips)
Seat 5: BB2-BB2 ($14.50 in chips)
Seat 6: carcloser ($115.80 in chips)
Seat 7: supertomten ($164.70 in chips)
Seat 8: Adamr0226 ($145.75 in chips)
Seat 9: fitts4u ($37.50 in chips)
shaka1117: posts small blind $0.50
LuckyRiver18: posts big blind $1
bblouie: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IVIaximus [Ad As]
bblouie: checks
BB2-BB2: folds
carcloser: folds
supertomten: folds
Adamr0226: raises $4 to $5
fitts4u: calls $5
IVIaximus: raises $8 to $13
shaka1117: folds
LuckyRiver18: folds
bblouie: folds
Adamr0226: raises $132.75 to $145.75 and is all-in
fitts4u: folds
IVIaximus: calls $67.20 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [Qc 3s Kh]
*** TURN *** [Qc 3s Kh] [2h]
*** RIVER *** [Qc 3s Kh 2h] [Qh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Adamr0226: shows [Kc Ks] (a full house, Kings full of Queens)
IVIaximus: mucks hand
Adamr0226 collected $164.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $167.90 | Rake $3
Board [Qc 3s Kh 2h Qh]

PokerStars Game #4675101721: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/04/19 - 09:42:06 (ET)
Table 'Posnania' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: IVIaximus ($111.85 in chips)
Seat 3: BAMBI23 ($81 in chips)
Seat 4: kipper3880 ($43.50 in chips)
Seat 6: bcpoorboy ($48 in chips)
Seat 7: supertomten ($184.90 in chips)
Seat 8: Conild ($118.15 in chips)
kipper3880: posts small blind $0.50
bcpoorboy: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IVIaximus [Ad Kd]
supertomten: raises $2 to $3
Conild: folds
wildplasser joins the table at seat #9
IVIaximus: raises $4 to $7
BAMBI23: folds
kipper3880: folds
bcpoorboy: folds
supertomten: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [Kh Jh 7d]
supertomten: checks
IVIaximus: bets $5
supertomten: calls $5
*** TURN *** [Kh Jh 7d] [Qh]
supertomten: checks
IVIaximus: bets $7
supertomten: calls $7
*** RIVER *** [Kh Jh 7d Qh] [8h]
supertomten: checks
IVIaximus: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
supertomten: shows [9h 8c] (a flush, King high)
IVIaximus: mucks hand
supertomten collected $37.60 from pot

I'm Pawning 2/4 someone please write an article about the
-EV DONK FACTOR

PokerStars Game #4675700131: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/04/19 - 11:55:00 (ET)
Table 'Mizar' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: studd7card ($510.95 in chips)
Seat 2: wingnprayer ($473.90 in chips)
Seat 3: MYTHOLOGIC ($495.25 in chips)
Seat 4: beuler ($156.15 in chips)
Seat 5: IVIaximus ($417.40 in chips)
Seat 6: D_Zoo ($394 in chips)
Seat 7: pairofdeuce ($73.75 in chips)
Seat 8: utreg ($521.60 in chips)
Seat 9: snapfade ($133.10 in chips)
utreg: posts small blind $2
snapfade: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IVIaximus [Ks Kc]
studd7card: folds
wingnprayer: folds
MYTHOLOGIC: folds
beuler: folds
IVIaximus: calls $4
D_Zoo: calls $4
pairofdeuce: folds
utreg: calls $2
snapfade: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qh Th 3d]
utreg: checks
snapfade: checks
IVIaximus: bets $8
D_Zoo: raises $12 to $20
utreg: folds
snapfade: folds
IVIaximus: raises $24 to $44
D_Zoo: calls $24
*** TURN *** [Qh Th 3d] [Kh]
IVIaximus: bets $36
D_Zoo: raises $116 to $152
IVIaximus: calls $116
*** RIVER *** [Qh Th 3d Kh] [Qd]
IVIaximus: bets $217.40 and is all-in
D_Zoo: folds
IVIaximus collected $405 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $408 | Rake $3
Board [Qh Th 3d Kh Qd]
Seat 1: studd7card folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: wingnprayer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MYTHOLOGIC folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: beuler folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: IVIaximus collected ($405)
Seat 6: D_Zoo folded on the River
Seat 7: pairofdeuce (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: utreg (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: snapfade (big blind) folded on the Flop

I talked to D_Zoo after the hand and he told he had the nut flush good laydown buddy. I don't know if I could get away from that.

Bluff

Could never get away with this at the donk tables

PokerStars Game #4675834233: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/04/19 - 12:19:52 (ET)
Table 'Mizar' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: studd7card ($622.70 in chips)
Seat 2: wingnprayer ($780 in chips)
Seat 3: MYTHOLOGIC ($89.95 in chips)
Seat 4: beuler ($107.15 in chips)
Seat 5: IVIaximus ($603.90 in chips)
Seat 6: D_Zoo ($841 in chips)
Seat 7: pairofdeuce ($68.05 in chips)
Seat 8: utreg ($499.60 in chips)
Seat 9: snapfade ($139.90 in chips)
IVIaximus: posts small blind $2
D_Zoo: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IVIaximus [As Js]
pairofdeuce: folds
utreg: folds
snapfade: folds
studd7card: raises $4 to $8
MYTHOLOGIC said, "nice play"
wingnprayer: calls $8
wingnprayer said, "u2"
MYTHOLOGIC: folds
beuler: folds
IVIaximus: calls $6
D_Zoo: folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 7d 8d]
IVIaximus: checks
studd7card: checks
wingnprayer: checks
*** TURN *** [7c 7d 8d] [6h]
IVIaximus: bets $8
studd7card: folds
wingnprayer: folds
IVIaximus collected $26.60 from pot

I dont understand this whole bankroll thing. If you start with $1000 and play either 1/2nl or 2/4nl shouldnt your bankroll increase if your good? I mean no offense to anyone but regardless of what limit you play if your bankroll is stuck at one number or keeps going up and down with no constant upswing doesnt that mean your just not a good player? I mean with $1000 you should be able to increase your bankroll playing just 1/2nl to where you can play 2/4 pretty comfortably along with some SNG and MTT.

sorry to tell you this, but I think you really need to learn how to play better before you move past the quarter tables!

Hand 1- with your weak flop bet you actually give him correct implied odds to chase the gutshot!

Hand 2- you limp with KK in MP then play it like the absolue nuts. then get lucky with the turn and river, because you very weel could have been behind(espeically after heart hits on turn)

Hand 3- Congrats on bluffing out a couple passive players with an $8 bet into a $24 pot. You even bet too small to bluff! Most people would call here, I am sure you got lucky they had crap too.

"People are smart enough to realize their beat and don't chase to the river also,"

You want this to happen. People chasing bad draws is what keeps us in business. Nothing worse than someone complining how there trips were busted by a gut shot on the river. I can't think of a better person to play agianst.

With a $1000 you can buy in at a 1/2nl for $150 and have 6 buy ins, if you cant increase your bankroll with that then people need to read some more books or find another hobby. I never sit down at a table with the max buy in and do quite well plus it increases my bankroll and times I can buy in, so that is one way to help your bankroll...

Here tell me if I played this terrible, sorry I just checked the river I'm too money scare to raise with only top pair top kicker at this table.

pokerstars Game #4676109276: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/04/19 - 13:07:21 (ET)
Table 'Mizar' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Schumi1 ($254.45 in chips)
Seat 2: cartman317 ($233 in chips)
Seat 3: MYTHOLOGIC ($665.40 in chips)
Seat 4: beuler ($470.60 in chips)
Seat 5: IVIaximus ($601 in chips)
Seat 6: D_Zoo ($955.30 in chips)
Seat 7: hydronman ($83.60 in chips)
Seat 8: Bino10174 ($356.80 in chips)
Seat 9: kissiah ($400 in chips)
cartman317 said, "cash games are good for br if you're good at them as well"
hydronman: posts small blind $2
Bino10174: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IVIaximus [Ac Ks]
kissiah: folds
kissiah said, "lol"
Schumi1: folds
cartman317: folds
MYTHOLOGIC: raises $8 to $12
beuler: folds
IVIaximus: calls $12
D_Zoo: folds
hydronman: folds
Bino10174: folds
*** FLOP *** [As 7d Jh]
D_Zoo said, "lol"
MYTHOLOGIC: bets $12
IVIaximus: raises $20 to $32
MYTHOLOGIC: calls $20
*** TURN *** [As 7d Jh] [2d]
MYTHOLOGIC: checks
D_Zoo said, "anyoneplay full titl?"
IVIaximus: bets $36
D_Zoo said, "tilt"
MYTHOLOGIC: calls $36
*** RIVER *** [As 7d Jh 2d] [5s]
kissiah said, "dont like their software"
MYTHOLOGIC: checks
IVIaximus: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MYTHOLOGIC: shows [Qc Ah] (a pair of Aces)
IVIaximus: shows [Ac Ks] (a pair of Aces - King kicker)

Bet the River. This board couldnt look any less un-scary.

Like I said Haterz

honestly, you are bad bankroll management with a hellmuthian attitude. Plus your game has a lot leaks at first glance, I'd look into cardrunners, propokerschool, or the like.

ac

The hand where you lose to 69 is comical. You only start to bet really hard when the turn card fills up both the flush and the straight. I'm not exactly giving him the straight here but SOOOOOOTED cards are what people love....i usually slow down a little when an obvious out pops out. After all, all you have is a pair...My advice and I think some people might agree with me is take your "bankroll" to limit, where you can afford to play a higher game than .10/.25, and where suckouts won't eat half your roll.

I think some people over analyze having a proper bankroll, but that is just me. Bankroll Management guidelines are developed for people who have no other source of income.

For instance I only keep about 1k online for play at the levels I play which ranges from 2/4 LHE, 1/2 NLHE and 20-100 tourneys. Why do I need to keep that much money online. When I make a profit I withdrawl and keep 1k online. That way I get to use the money I make for other things or invest in savings and mutual funds. If I want to play higher I do. If I lose, just redeposit more online. I have withdrawn more than 10x the amount that I have deposited, so I don't see what the big deal is.

The point is if you have other forms of income and you are willing to invest some of that money into poker if you have a bad run, then your bankroll is much bigger than what it appears to be.

I don't see how anyone could possibly make any substantial amount of money starting with a $100-500 deposit without playing above the recommend levels based on bankroll.

If you started with 500 and you played 0.05/0.10 NL at a rate of even 10BB/100 hands, that is $1 per 100 hands, it would take you 50,000 hands played in order to double your roll to 1k. Then if you move to the recommended 0.10/0.25 NL it would take another 60,000 hands to get your roll to 2.5k at which you could move up to 0.25/0.50 NL with 50 buyins. You would need to play another 50,000 hands at this level to have 5k to move up to 1/2NL with 50 buyins. By this point you have played 160,000 hands. Assuming you played 4 tables at a time at a rate of 60 hands per hour you would need to play for 667 hours with no breaks. At 2.5 hours per day it would take you 9 months to do this.

To move up to 2/4 they recommend 20k which would mean you would need to play an additional 75,000 hands at the 1/2 level. Now you just added another 5 months of 4 tabling. And this all assumes that you can earn 10BB/100 hands at each of these levels, which is a pretty high level over these numbers of hands.

Or you can just take a shot like this guy did at the 2/4 table, and in 3 or 4 hours you could possibly make 1k. Pull off some profit and have a party.

There is no way I could grind the micro cash tables. It seems to me that the variance is to great on those tables.

So what if I go bust online. Reload and get the bonuses!