Originally Posted by Willywoo

 

Originally Posted by hattrick8810

Pretty much the same thing that happened to Sooners. I have been backed by JJ for over a year now. Not many people knew about it. Anyway, i had my account frozen yesterday and today I got the email saying it is permanently closed since I was "guilty by association". I have done nothing wrong besides transferring money with the wrong people. I have never multi-accounted. JJ has never ghosted or taken over anything for me. I think it is an unfair decision but it is a decision i will have to live with. I knew what the risks were so it is ultimately my fault.

Just wanted to let everyone know you won't be seeing TheTownhouse at the tables anymore.

1. You say you were banned for "guilt by association", yet you don't post the written notification from Poker Stars so we have to believe you.
2. Even if you have been banned for "guilt by association", a known and banned cheater is putting money into your account(the association I assume). This means that even though he is banned he has a financial interest in your account and your play.
3. A banned player is banned. To me, this means he is no longer able to participate in the activities of that site. By having a financial interest in your account and your play he is still participating in the play on that site, thus circumventing the ban.
4. You are facilitating his effort to circumvent the ban.
5. If he is allowed to fund your play, the rest of us have to take your word for it that he is not playing on your account or ghosting or whatever, eventhough there is an admitted financial interest.
6. This creates the appearance of impropriety.
7. It makes people have less faith in the safety and security of online poker.
8. I have no idea who you are, why should I trust you, especially in light of your admitted association and common financial interest with a known cheater?

1. Hello Chris,

Thank you for your patience while we have conducted a review of the
activities of your account and several related accounts on <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1222191392_0>pokerstars</SPAN>.

Our investigation has found that a group of accounts closely associated
with your own has been involved in aiding and abetting certain barred
players in their efforts to play on PokerStars. Our findings are based on a
detailed analysis of technical data and PokerStars' internal reports.

PokerStars will neither tolerate nor condone the presence of barred
players in our games, and will not allow to play those who would conspire
to keep secret such a player's presence on PokerStars.

Therefore, in accordance with our policy of barring not only those who
cheat but those who are closely associated with such cheaters, your
PokerStars account has been permanently closed. You will be permitted to
cash out, but will not be permitted to do so by transferring your funds to
another account. Instead, we will only send a check payable to the name
on the account, and will send it only to the street address on your
account.

Please note that any attempt to circumvent your removal from PokerStars by
playing on another account may result in the confiscation of any funds in
such an account as well as the closure of that account. You are no longer
welcome to play on PokerStars under any user ID.

Best Regards,

Jeff
PokerStars Game Security

2. I never received any transfer from "a JJ account". All of my transfers were from known players FishOnTilt, HitUr2Outer, and APerfectGent.

3. Agree but I do not beleieve this warrants a LIFETIME ban for me, maybe a short ban or have my transfer option taken away.

4. Same thing as 3

5. I don't even have to argue this, I dont need someone to ghost my play. I have been a poker pro for a good 4 years now. I think I can hold my own. And fwiw JJ never once asked to ghost me or give me advice.

6./7. To who? Did you know I was backed when I was playing on pokerstars? Does that matter when you are playing poker vs someone? It creates the appearance of impropriety when morons on forums just read the top line of my post that says OMG he was backed by JJProdigy! He must be a cheater!

8. I actually was ranked as high as #5 at one point here on pocketfives. I also was sponsored by Bodog for a short time about a year ago. I am a very credible person. I have met most of the high stakes MTT regulars and i'm sure they can vouch for that.

I did not make this post to argue what I did was desrving of a lifetime ban. I just want people to know what happened and hopefully you don't look at me like a cheater or a MA'er because I surely am not

Why all the talk of "guilty" and "innocent"? This is not a legal matter and is not being decided in a court of law.

One has the privilege of playing poker at any on line site. One does not have a right to do so.

The site, much like a restaurant or movie theater, reserves the legal right to refuse service to anyone at anytime.

In this arrangement, it is pokerstars' right to do as it pleases. The risk they take is that they will irritate enough other players who will then go elsewhere, thus negatively impacting their business.

This is their risk to take. Right now they appear to be saying "it is better for our business to make examples of all those associated with JJ than it is not to."

Their call. Case closed.

PS - for any who think PokerStars is being capricious in this matter, acting without solid information, please consider the outcome of the suit brought by Ms. Telscher. Ms Teltscher withdrew her lawsuit and agreed to help pay for PokerStars' legal costs. This is clear indication they had solid evidence backing up their decision. Now you beleive they are acting on whim in these cases?

I think hattrick got a huge, unfair bad beat, but as others have pointed out its completely within their right to refuse service to anyone, anytime they wish.
In the future people will have to be careful about who they conduct business with in the poker world. Anyone who tolerates any kind of shadyness among their friends or poker relations can get burned like hattrick and sooners did. Its like the guy's head on a pole in the town square in medieval times.He was probably innocent and everyone knew it but people straightened their act up because they didn't want to end up like him.

Ginwilly, you just showed how naive and stupid you really are. I am not a liar, plain and simple so I said that I would open a new acccount and play. This is my job, not something I do for recreation. I play poker to pay bills, child support, rent. I don't have the luxury of taking time off and only playing ftp when stars mtts are the best. Would you rather me come on here like ZeeJustin & Andy and everyone else who have been banned for periods of time and lie and say that Im not going to play? Do you really think ZeeJustin played every single day until he was banned and then quit? Do you think Andy didnt play? Are you that stupid? I would much rather play anonymously because that's the hand I 've been dealt than to lie to the community and say I'm just not gonna play and then lie to everyone who asks me if I 've been playing. I am sure my boy hattrick will play or is playing as well as others mentioned in these threads but you believe what u will. While your at it change your city under personal options to Fantasyland b/c that's where u must live
(SN)

sooners i owe you an apology, i don't know you and it's not fair to judge you. It's just that you seem to symbolize the problems online sites are having. If we ever want this game legalized in the states, regulated and honest, then things like this don't help. To ask people to do the right thing is the only recourse we as players have. I sincerely hope you get to play on stars as yourself the right way again. To admit that you just opened a new account on a board that stars has people reading daily is just crazy. If done the right way, we could get behind you and petition stars to let you guys play again. Jtown thinks they banned you because of us, if that's true then they can unban you because of us. but you are now a multi-accounter, hard to get in your corner.

again, gl tho, i mean it really, i'd rather see people do well in life instead of struggle because of poor choices they make

Listen, I'm not mad at you or anyone. I chose to take this stake b/c of my situation. I was flat busto. I ran 5k into almost 450k and i should have dropped JJ at that moment and went on my own but the wsop was coming and I lost a bunch back playing 200-400 plo on ftp.
Fwiw I went to several different backers but I dont want to mention their names as they have nothing to do with this. I will admit that I should have considered the ramifications of doing business with JJ but being banned for taking a stake was not even considered by me or I never would have taken it. I have never read TOS and still haven't. I have had a fine relationship with JJ and he was very good to me and I never saw all the bad things that people write about him.
All you can do is treat people as they treat you and he treated me very well when a lot of people didn't so there is some loyalty there. Maybe I shouldn't have said that I will open a new account even though it is obvious to eveyone that that is what happens when your account is closed. I mean it's basically having your drivers license revoked when you have to drive. It just is what it is. I have been trying to contact Stars but they won't even talk to me. I really do not want to deceive anyone and have an unfair advantage but I'm in a bad spot whether I put myself here or not.
I do not think a petition would help and I wouldn't ask the community to do this. I have many friends and even a few that work at pokerstars but the security dept. is apparently their own entity and the law @ pokerstars. The whole situation just sucks.

 

Originally Posted by orgnalsooners

Listen, I'm not mad at you or anyone. I chose to take this stake b/c of my situation. I was flat busto. I ran 5k into almost 450k and i should have dropped JJ at that moment and went on my own but the wsop was coming and I lost a bunch back playing 200-400 plo on ftp.
Fwiw I went to several different backers but I dont want to mention their names as they have nothing to do with this. I will admit that I should have considered the ramifications of doing business with JJ but being banned for taking a stake was not even considered by me or I never would have taken it. I have never read TOS and still haven't. I have had a fine relationship with JJ and he was very good to me and I never saw all the bad things that people write about him.
All you can do is treat people as they treat you and he treated me very well when a lot of people didn't so there is some loyalty there. Maybe I shouldn't have said that I will open a new account even though it is obvious to eveyone that that is what happens when your account is closed. I mean it's basically having your drivers license revoked when you have to drive. It just is what it is. I have been trying to contact Stars but they won't even talk to me. I really do not want to deceive anyone and have an unfair advantage but I'm in a bad spot whether I put myself here or not.
I do not think a petition would help and I wouldn't ask the community to do this. I have many friends and even a few that work at pokerstars but the security dept. is apparently their own entity and the law @ pokerstars. The whole situation just sucks.

Sooners, u2, see post above by me as it applies to you too. Sorry, but reality is harsh and this is your reality.

 

Originally Posted by apestyles

 

Originally Posted by Ozzie

please quit while youre so very far behind.

Your arguments have actually sucked. They've been so lacking logic in fact that I'm not even going to dignify them by argueing with them.

FWIW I agree with N 82 here. Its really unfair that people who just needed a backer are getting burnt even though guys like hattrick and sooners didn't multi-account at all or even know JJ's MA names. However, I don't see stars as having another option either. They have to be tough on MAing and cheating to make people think twice about doing it.

Backing by the mob (i.e. jj) or backing by a legal entity. Are both situations okay? I don't think so. These are some of the growing pains and realities that online poker and its moneymakers are going to have to face. If this shyt ever gets regulated in the US, you ain't seen nothing yet. If these same sorts of shennangins took place under an era of regulation, JJ and his bish ass punks cronies would be sitting in federal fuk me in the ass and ask for more prison. nuff said!

 

Originally Posted by AFink93

I have alot of respect for Sooners here. He doenst like me that much but I give him credit for manning up and being honest and taking care of his business.. I dont blame him one bit if he decides to play again on stars. Pretty much everyone else will also. Good Luck in the future and im sure lesson was learned. And what is it with you degens and PL Omaha.. You guys (im referring to you and Justin(stealthmunk) are blessed with a winning lottery ticket to play hold em and make mad bank but you piss it away at PL Omaha?

honest or not. he needs to be banned like every other idiot (or not so idiot) associated with JJ. This has to happen to clean up the poker world. It must start somewhere and unfortunately sooners is the guy to take it in the assss. GG sooners.

 

Originally Posted by orgnalsooners

I have never read TOS and still haven't.

Pretty much says it all...

"I don't know the rules and am not going to take the time to learn the rules, so therefore they shouldn't apply to me!"

Great attitude sir, you will go far in life.

Like it or not, your attitude of blatantly flaunting the rules (by first being ignorant of them and now posting that you will get around them by opening a new account under a false name) will carry over to the rest of your life. How many people who openly cheat in one area of their life only cheat in that one area?

Where does the line stop though? What if you are being backed by someone you have no clue is multi accounting. Obviously a hypothetical situation but it seems to me that this could have harsh considerations for people in the future who may or may not know who they are working for. After all you never know in the real world what funds your boss or company are really using or their intent. In my opinion it is really bad, you must find a way to get rid of the head honcho (i.e. mafia etc) to ever get rid of an underground situation.

 

Originally Posted by SowersUNCC

Where does the line stop though? What if you are being backed by someone you have no clue is multi accounting. Obviously a hypothetical situation but it seems to me that this could have harsh considerations for people in the future who may or may not know who they are working for. After all you never know in the real world what funds your boss or company are really using or their intent. In my opinion it is really bad, you must find a way to get rid of the head honcho (i.e. mafia etc) to ever get rid of an underground situation.

Seems like both parties (backers and backees) have to be very careful.

Since I've never been involved with backing, I don't know how it works. I am assuming that there is some type of research that goes on and that people aren't going in blind. Well - that research just got a lot more difficult.

And it seems like the entire backing culture just got a lot more difficult - and probably smaller in scope.

I'm also afraid that some of those reputable players with large staking syndicates could be put at risk by someone who holds a vendetta.