OK so it's ITM in the P5 open. I get KK in the CO and have an open and a 3bet by BBOY in front of me. I'm never folding obv, but I want to know how you guys play this.

I'm sitting on 50bb though we're looking at ~35bb effective in this hand. I'd been sitting with BBOY for 72 hands it looks like (TY hud) so he's seen me play if he was paying attention.

The hand before this is relevant IMO for sure. I got dealt AA on the button with 25BB. CO 3x'd to 2400 I made it 6300 called a shove and held. Also, notice the chat in this hand, I dunno if he was folding anyway, but my chat may have tipped the hand too IDK. (which is why i normally don't chat in a hand...)


So, given that history etc, are people flatting or 4 betting.. and if so what size? I'm 100% sure my 4bet was too big, but was really unsure of what size to make it.


pokerstars Game #49007903752: Tournament #304335107, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2010/09/01 23:26:26 ET
Table '304335107 69' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: ApesAreFun (12070 in chips)
Seat 2: MBus28 (6108 in chips)
Seat 3: JoePo007 (21312 in chips)
Seat 4: BBOY3110 (36571 in chips)
Seat 5: Trip19 (19497 in chips)
Seat 6: 515121 (21178 in chips)
Seat 7: abmarks (41803 in chips)
Seat 8: subpar67 (24403 in chips)
Seat 9: AFilipe (7790 in chips)
ApesAreFun: posts the ante 75
MBus28: posts the ante 75
JoePo007: posts the ante 75
BBOY3110: posts the ante 75
Trip19: posts the ante 75
515121: posts the ante 75
abmarks: posts the ante 75
subpar67: posts the ante 75
AFilipe: posts the ante 75
AFilipe: posts small blind 400
ApesAreFun: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abmarks [Kc Ks]
MBus28: folds
abmarks said, "ty ape"
BBOY3110 said, "run betttttterrrr"
JoePo007: raises 1077 to 1877
Trip19 said, "lol"
abmarks said, "lol bb"
BBOY3110: raises 2011 to 3888
Trip19: folds
515121: folds
abmarks: raises 10512 to 14400
subpar67: folds
AFilipe: folds
ApesAreFun: folds
JoePo007: folds
BBOY3110 said, "wug"
abmarks said, "i got run better"
BBOY3110 said, "lol"
BBOY3110 said, "oh boy"
ApesAreFun said, "lol"
BBOY3110: folds
Uncalled bet (10512) returned to abmarks

Pretty impossible to not look strong in spots like these. Make your 3bet somewhere around 8k or just open shove. Im not flattin too often here if at all, esp. against a solid player.

 

Originally Posted by chancew

Pretty impossible to not look strong in spots like these. Make your 3bet somewhere around 8k or just open shove. Im not flattin too often here if at all, esp. against a solid player.

with all due respect....iv seen bboy play a decent amount and calling him solid is being very very generous. hes j8o tops

4b wayyyyyy smaller
7225 or so looks good
if u keep ur 4bs small ull be able to 4b/f when u want, and 4b induce (this situation) when u want

Nat- I think deoxy is saying keep the 4b small so that at that particular size it works both as a bluff and a monster. One size fits all and if it is a bluff you lose less.

You 4b massively and then proceeded to have a candid little chat w/ him... you pretty much told him you had the nuts, which is a form of cheating imo, so I might have stars look into this hh.

Anywho, don't 4b huge and don't jam and don't fold... your other 2 options are fine. Which one is better depends on how you/bboy/1st raiser had been playing. Also depends on how drunk bboy is.

 

Originally Posted by N 82 50 24

Right but he's talking about b/f. I'm wondering if he cares about the possibility of getting a call if he's gonna be 4b bluffing. Obv if people today will only f/r in bboy's spot (when you make a small raise) then not an issue.

Usually people aren't flatting 4bets but if they do I either try to outplay postflop or simply give up
also, PM mastap89 on 4betting 96o (iirc?), getting flatted, flopping trip sixes, and stacking pocket aces

so yea, it sucks when they flat and I'm light, but it just gives me more ways to win the pot as opposed to him just shoving. Giving my bluff a chance to bink the flop
I always get freaked out when ppl hoodflat me. Never know exactly what to do, especiallly with AK on like J92 flops. That's the worst

 

Originally Posted by Pipes06

Don't say anything in chat during a hand.

I'd make it 8888 or something around that. You can go smaller too.

yep- usually never say a thing to avoid stuff. So alot of you are saying that 4betting like Uber min- not even 2x the total 3bet, or barely 2xing it the 3bet is enough? Is that because the fact that you are even 4betting at all says enough? (Rhetorical I guess... not that many cold 4 bets out there)

In the hand I was thinking I oughta just 3x it or so and then stupidly added another x for the original raiser. Not usually deep enough stacked in the cold 4 bet situation to do anything other than shove so had no default raise size. Thx... i'm seeing the trend

6969 OTT

 

Originally Posted by Deoxyribo

Usually people aren't flatting 4bets but if they do I either try to outplay postflop or simply give up
also, PM mastap89 on 4betting 96o (iirc?), getting flatted, flopping trip sixes, and stacking pocket aces

so yea, it sucks when they flat and I'm light, but it just gives me more ways to win the pot as opposed to him just shoving. Giving my bluff a chance to bink the flop
I always get freaked out when ppl hoodflat me. Never know exactly what to do, especiallly with AK on like J92 flops. That's the worst

Ask yourself what would you do if you had QQ+ in that spot and act accordingly.

even some of the 4bet sizes mentioned in this thread are a tad high it seems. i'm anywhere between 4bettng to 5950-6375

make it 7899 to go

Just to add that given original raiser stack size, I think bbboy is 3beting for value.
With that in mind, I think a shove from you gets more called than a small 4bet kind of bluff cause you are commited now to the pot in case original raiser shoves.

 

Originally Posted by shanetrain22

You 4b massively and then proceeded to have a candid little chat w/ him... you pretty much told him you had the nuts, which is a form of cheating imo, so I might have stars look into this hh.

Anywho, don't 4b huge and don't jam and don't fold... your other 2 options are fine. Which one is better depends on how you/bboy/1st raiser had been playing. Also depends on how drunk bboy is.

Personally I dont jam, but its better than 4betting this massive. With his image, and just 3bet showing aces, I dont mind a jam against some players. You'd be surprised at some of the shit you get called with and looks less like KK,AA to some. S to completely rule it out is wrong IMO.

 

Originally Posted by The Lab Rat

your 4 bet sizing tilts me. Id fold Jacks here to that sizing as Gettin Daize stated

 

Originally Posted by ApesAreFun

If U 4b smaller there's no doubt in my mind U could've induced spazz from bboy. Pretty funny with U two guys getting aces and kings every other hand. Could've led to a light 5b if U made it smaller. With that sizing and the chat, its pretty obv that U got it.
GG tho, u played well =)

Agreed with both you guys, and everyone else about the sizing. In fact it tilted me right after the hand as I knew I coulda stacked some serious chips if I had done that right - hence this post.

and ty ape.

 

Originally Posted by el arracachero

Just to add that given original raiser stack size, I think bbboy is 3beting for value.

this- i hadn't seen bboy 3bet vs that stack and from that early a position so I was pretty sure it was for value and didn't see him folding. Can only think he had JJ QQ or maybe AK here.