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Below Isolating a Short Stack

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  1. Jer672 Jer672 is offline

    Ithaca, NY
    United States

    Posts: 664
    Joined: Jan 06

    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 12:59am)

    I know there is a rhyme and reason to this play as i remember a lengthy discussion between i believe brsavage and AJ a while back about a similar hand. Is there math behind this play that makes it profitable? Is it that Below puts both the initial all in and the big stack caller on a wide range so his reraise will most likely cause the big stack to fold and thus he is getting good odds? I would like to understand this play so i can possibly add it to my game. Thanks for any input!

    pokerstars Game #9345118222: Tournament #47143588, $25.00+$2.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVIII (6000/12000) - 2007/04/10 - 00:51:34 (ET)
    Table '47143588 169' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: nikhilg (184650 in chips)
    Seat 3: KillahKev (340519 in chips)
    Seat 4: hwgdf (282546 in chips)
    Seat 5: seado (328998 in chips)
    Seat 6: madskills69 (129081 in chips)
    Seat 8: BeL0WaB0Ve (216500 in chips)
    Seat 9: Purdue2k5 (29845 in chips)
    nikhilg: posts the ante 600
    KillahKev: posts the ante 600
    hwgdf: posts the ante 600
    seado: posts the ante 600
    madskills69: posts the ante 600
    BeL0WaB0Ve: posts the ante 600
    Purdue2k5: posts the ante 600
    madskills69: posts small blind 6000
    BeL0WaB0Ve: posts big blind 12000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Purdue2k5: raises 17245 to 29245 and is all-in
    nikhilg: folds
    KillahKev: folds
    hwgdf: folds
    seado: calls 29245
    madskills69: folds
    BeL0WaB0Ve: raises 44155 to 73400
    seado: folds
    *** FLOP *** [3h 8c 6c]
    *** TURN *** [3h 8c 6c] [2s]
    *** RIVER *** [3h 8c 6c 2s] [Jh]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    BeL0WaB0Ve: shows [6s 8s] (two pair, Eights and Sixes)
    Purdue2k5: shows [Kd 9h] (high card King)
    BeL0WaB0Ve collected 97935 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 97935 | Rake 0
    Board [3h 8c 6c 2s Jh]
    Seat 1: nikhilg folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: KillahKev folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: hwgdf folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: seado (button) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: madskills69 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 8: BeL0WaB0Ve (big blind) showed [6s 8s] and won (97935) with two pair, Eights and Sixes
    Seat 9: Purdue2k5 showed [Kd 9h] and lost with high card King
  2. AFink93 AFink93 is online now

    Norwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 14,381
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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:17am) in reply to Jer672

    Its a good play because Bel0w did it and he got so lucky.. If I did the same play.. I would lose the hand and I would get harrassed by everyone at the table..
  3. Wrongshui Wrongshui is offline

    Austin, TX
    United States

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:26am) in reply to Jer672

    Uhh, with his stack it was a great play.

    He saw seado's call as weak, and made a play that would net him over 2.5:1 on his money with a suited connecter.

    Even against aces he's getting great odds with that move.
  4. Suicydal Suicydal is offline

    Washington, MI
    United States

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:26am) in reply to Jer672

    Well, by reraising, he effectively gets 2-1 on his money as only a 3-2 dog in the hand. It's a marginal play, really. He's counting on only being 3-2 in the hand against the original raiser and that the caller folds. If the original raiser happens to have an overpair, the play is -ev. If the caller realizes what he's doing and shoves, it's a disaster. When you run like Below, though, it almost always works... lol

    edit... did not see he was bb... forget most of this... its late... oh, except the below running good part :)
  5. Suicydal Suicydal is offline

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:27am) in reply to Wrongshui

    uhhh... against an overpair he needs 3-1
  6. Jer672 Jer672 is offline

    Ithaca, NY
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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:27am) in reply to Jer672

    Thanks for the input...i appreciate it =)
    Thread Starter
  7. NetFan44 NetFan44 is offline

    New York City, NY
    United States

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:27am) in reply to Jer672

    if the smooth caller folds, below is putting in 17k to win a pot of almost 80k (he's the bb), which makes this a more than profitable play
  8. MrTimCaum MrTimCaum is offline

    Dublin
    Ireland

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:34am) in reply to Jer672

    This thread is going to be funny, because SGB posted a thread last night with a very similar hand where I defended his play, and a bunch of micro clowns came in the thread and basically called us retarded. Now, Below posts a similar hand and many of those same micro clowns are going to come and slobber all over his dick about what a great play it is (not that he doesn't deserve it, because it IS a great play and he is a great player).
  9. Niceguy Niceguy is offline I will find you.

    NV
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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:38am) in reply to MrTimCaum

    Tim below is in the bb. It is different then j9 os in CO.
    Below has an above avg stack. Saul had a below avg stack.
    Below runs like god. saul doesnt.
  10. Andy McLEOD Andy McLEOD is offline

    Adelaide
    Australia

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:46am) in reply to Niceguy

    lol @ below running good. maybe a few months ago
    1
  11. Grip Grip is offline

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 1:51am) in reply to Andy McLEOD

    lol @ andy mcleod being a jerkoff yet again
    207 
  12. Andy McLEOD Andy McLEOD is offline

    Adelaide
    Australia

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 2:48am) in reply to Grip

    yeah steaming so hard today, oh well, had to defend a friend who has been running bad lately and doesnt deserve the stereotype

    hes running better today tho, won the 22r and CL FT of $55+1+1, vnvn
    1
  13. Chuckles69 Chuckles69 is offline

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 3:13am) in reply to Andy McLEOD

    It proves again the top winners online have FSS, Flop Showing Software, 19.95 in stores now!
  14. jhammond10 jhammond10 is offline

    Netherlands Antilles

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 3:20am) in reply to MrTimCaum

    Does it make a difference what your cards are when utilizing this play? Just curious
  15. Decatur217 Decatur217 is offline OTs Iron Man

    IL
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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 3:23am) in reply to Chuckles69

    what store? what store? with tax?
  16. Cre8ive Cre8ive is offline Moderator

    Boynton Beach, FL
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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 4:32am) in reply to jhammond10

    At first glance I thought this was a horrible play, but after thinking it out...

    He's basically risking 17k (how much more to call the all in) to win 100k (the final pot size once the other caller folds)

    Once the guy calls 30k, below can raise and if the guy who just calls folds, then below is only putting 17k into the pot (vs the all in guy) to win 100k chips.

    It's great if you hit, but even if you dont hit you are getting huge pot odds vs the initial shover (who is short and shoving any decent type hands UTG anyways where he still has some kind of fold equity). If you lose this hand you only lost 17k and a shot at a 100k pot. If you win this hand you only risked 17k to win 100k. Also, your cards shouldnt matter in this spot because the odds are such in your favor if the other guy folds, cards are irrelevant.

    Hope this makes sense.

    -Cre8ive
      
  17. BeL0WaB0Ve BeL0WaB0Ve is offline

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 4:58am) in reply to jhammond10

    I did this bc I knew I was going to flop 2 pair.

    :-P

    JK, I did this bc the utg shove was obv a large range, as was the smooth call by the button. I'm OBV gonna be flippin the extra 17k, but this enabled me to get almost 6-1 on my money, and if button shoved/smooth called and flop was of texture that I didnt feel i could win the pot I knew I could fold and go into push/fold mode vs what I believed was a weak playing table. I may have appeared to have an average stack (avg was 205k at this point), but the blinds were on there way up and there was not alot of play left in my stack. To me, having 200k, 170k or 130k is like the same thing at this point, and having close to 300k would definitely give me a little more flexibility in my stack. As it turned out I ended up bubbling the FT in 12th while the blinds were a humungo 10k-20k, pushing 140kish stack w/ 66 and having SB call with 60k behind with A4hh...

    BeL0W
    12
  18. SaulGood SaulGood is online now SPAGETT

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 5:15am) in reply to BeL0WaB0Ve

    I realize mine was different, but for reference

    http://www.pocketfives.com/E6C547E1-...AA9B6BCC9.aspx
     
  19. PocketSims PocketSims is offline

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    Apr 10th, 2007 (4/10/2007 8:34am) in reply to SaulGood

    looks like the classic sandwich play to me. the call on the button looks pretty weak if he had a hand he would want to isolate.
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