So this hand still has me scratching my head and i've talked to a lot of real good players and they all pretty much are scratching they're heads too so I figured I'd see what other ppl thought.

Last level of day 2 blinds 8001600 with a 200 ante. I have aroudn 170k and i cover both the players in this hand. I'm in the bb and gavin smith limps the button and the sb completes I check 92o. Gavin has like 100k and the other guy has about 10 or 15k more, he is a younger guy who doesn't seem like an online guy and doesn't seem like a pro, my gut reaction just from observing his mannerisms and chip handling and demeanor is that he is not that great of a player, but not a complete clown by any means.

The flop comes A92 with the ace and 2 of diamonds. SB checks I bet 4k gavin folds, sb calls. Turn is an 8, he checks and I bet 9k, he goes to call but accidentally puts in an extra 5k chip, they call over teh floor and they make him minraise. I am pretty confident that this was not an angle shoot and a genuine mistake, but you never know for sure. I decide to just call b/c I dont wanna let this pot get out of control just in case he is angle shooting or is not angle shooting and somehow has me beat (what do you guys think of this?). The river is an offsuit 10 and he checks to me, I bet 18k and he pretty quickly grabs all his 5k chips without counting them and sticks them in, its 57k more to me.

WTF????

By the way the hand played out it sounds like the only way you are beat is if he rivered you, which was made possible by the nonraise on the turn. I think your hand is way too vulnerable to call the min raise, I would have raised to 56kish on the turn with the intention of calling shove obv. I think he possibly holds AT or a str8 made wih his diamonds missing. Oh yeah i call and get angry at myself, really hard to peg him on a hand :)

No I have never played live, are you saying live players are not capable of check raising the river with two pair?

no not the 8 of diamonds, the flush draw missed.

checkraised u with 9 10 ? i think if he has a hand like 8 9 or 9 10 that he check calls the river. very weird. i see this often in live cash games and its usually a weak hand. some bad players will check raise with all sorts of hands. i think in this case though u are beat. i would fold and wait to trap him later on

sigh... to the ppl who think he ever shows up with 2 pair here, you guys must not play live very often.

edit: I guess since I dont have much info on him its poss that he has 2 pair but certainly not 89 or 910 and prob not a8 i would think if he were to make this play with 2 pair at all he would only do it with a10 and maybe a9.

Given all the BS on the turn, I'd get really confused, vomit, fold, and go smoke a blunt.

wait why cant it be two pair guys, isnt A8 or AT very possible?

seems like missed flush draw, QJ flush draw, or AT
his mannerisms sound like a bluff but i feel confident his most likely hand is QJdd (even though we talking about exactly one hand combo, i suppose 67dd also possible)

tough spot still but i think fold unless you have some reason to believe his signals of strength with the grabbing of the chips is an overwhelming indicator of weakness

I really dont think hes checking a hand that has you beat on the river. Im just going by your read that you didnt think he was a pro type player. And that would be a pretty tricky move to check a monster on the river hoping you bet.. I say call and do the Khan dance when he automucks and wait for Poker stars to call for a contract.

Putting myself in his place (if the 5k chip was a mistake) when i see that you just call the floor ruled min raise im trying to think why you would just call:

1.- you are not on a total bluff.... because if you were you most likely would have reraised to try to get him out right there.

2.- you have something, but not something strong enough to reraise in such an "obvious" easy spot and making a draw expensive.

3.- you are drawing and rather see the river in position before you act.

All 3 scenarios go more to a weak hand than to a strong hand. So when the river hits and it doesnt complete most draws and you bet again he has to be thinking why would he bet now with a 10 on the river and not reraise in the turn?

the two most likely reasons why you would do this are:

- you improved your hand (which is not so likely)

- your draw didnt got there and u trying to buy the pot

Having said all that... why would he push on the river? either the 10 really helped him or thought u were kinda weak and a reraise seemed really strong and he would get u off a missed draw obv and also you would fold second pair or even 2 low pairs.

Move all-in. He's got nothing.

jk jk jk. You always hear someone say that in posts like these. J7 QJ 67 of diamonds are all likely here.

can you go into the table dynamics more? and explain your thoughts behind betting the river?

i guess i fold, if he had like 30k less i would have shipped it in on turn

Havn't read responses but QdJd immediatly pops out at me. The accidental check-minraise definitly screws this hand up.
I think the river bet is too thin and I'm checking behind here. As played I'm folding.

Been talking it over and if the check-minraise had been intentional I'm tempted to RR turn tho only against certain opponents. 48kish in the pot when Menlo calls turn and OP has 90kish behind so a normal RR committs. I'm thinking that a normal check-minraise looks super strong so a RR of 20k more should scare the f*ck out of op. Easy fold if he pushes and if he hits his draw he's likely checking it to us and we can check behind.
Would obv only make this play against certain opponents, not against anyone who can push that turn w/ a weaker holding. Thoughts on that line anyone?

Definately sounds like a FD turned into a backdoor straight to me. You only beat a bluff, and mgerman made a good point... YOUR image. I doubt a kid is gonna try a move on a very good player. If he does know who you are, he may also assume that you know he's on a flush draw. (For some reason I always think its obvious when I'm on a flush draw, and that my opponents know what I'm looking for) That said, if he thinks your putting him on a flush draw, the river would appear as a blank to you, and since you've been betting every street, you're probably going to bet the river too, since the flush didnt come. I can really see him following that logic to check a backdoor straight to you, then, with confidence, throwing out a bunch of 5k chips. As played, I def fold.

I do wonder if checking the river is giving up some +EV from a value bet. Personally, I think him calling with a single pair here is definatley a crying call, esp with the BS on the turn. I'm kindof fond of a check here. Online, you can see what his hand was and use it as information. Perhaps you can force him to flip his cards here since he is 1st to act and was the last raiser. Maybe checking the river to gain information will be +EV in the long run. He is right next to you, so you'll likely be in a lot of other pots with him. What do you think? Checking to get information?