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Bluff picked off, unsure on how good his call was.

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  1. smashed you bro smashed you bro is offline

    New Zealand

    Posts: 79
    Joined: Dec 08

    Mar 21st, 2009 (3/21/2009 2:52am)

    Villain was raising based purely on the strength of his hand didnt care about his position etc, I'd also seen him 3-bet a MP raiser from the SB with KJ off so he was playing quite goofy.
    Full Tilt Poker Game #11250270296: $3 + $0.30 Knockout (84441864), Table 41 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:24:44 ET - 2009/03/21
    Seat 1: Hero (29,035)
    Seat 2: str82myhouse00 (18,782)
    Seat 3: mozza11 (16,967)
    Seat 5: RideEmEasy (37,006)
    Seat 6: vietboi4life (45,315)
    Seat 7: The Yokozuna (37,347)
    Seat 8: nascar5769 (75,479)
    Seat 9: frustr8or (4,877)
    Hero antes 150
    str82myhouse00 antes 150
    mozza11 antes 150
    RideEmEasy antes 150
    vietboi4life antes 150
    The Yokozuna antes 150
    nascar5769 antes 150
    frustr8or antes 150
    mozza11 posts the small blind of 600
    RideEmEasy posts the big blind of 1,200
    The button is in seat #2 *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Hero [Kh Qh]
    vietboi4life raises to 3,600
    The Yokozuna folds
    nascar5769 folds
    frustr8or folds
    Hero calls 3,600
    str82myhouse00 folds
    mozza11 folds
    RideEmEasy has 15 seconds left to act
    RideEmEasy folds
    *** FLOP *** [3c 8s 5s]
    vietboi4life bets 4,800
    Hero raises to 25,285, and is all in
    vietboi4life has 15 seconds left to act
    vietboi4life calls 20,485
    Hero shows [Kh Qh]
    vietboi4life shows [6d 6s]
    *** TURN *** [3c 8s 5s] [5h]
    *** RIVER *** [3c 8s 5s 5h] [9d]
    Hero shows a pair of Fives
    vietboi4life shows two pair, Sixes and Fives
    vietboi4life wins the pot (60,770) with two pair, Sixes and Fives
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 60,770 | Rake 0
    Board:[3c 8s 5s 5h 9d]
    Seat 1: Hero [Kh Qh] and lost with a pair of Fives
    Seat 2: str82myhouse00 (button) folded before the Flop
    Seat 3: mozza11 (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 5: RideEmEasy (big blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 6: vietboi4life showed [6d 6s] and won (60,770) with two pair, Sixes and Fives Seat 7: The Yokozuna folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: nascar5769 folded before the Flop
    Seat 9: frustr8or folded before the Flop

    He was normally betting full-pot if he made any type of connection with the board (including flush and straight draws) so judging his bet i figured he had a hand either worse than mine or a small pp which I believed he would fold.
    Now assuming I'm only shoving 99+ Ace/Overcard of spades, and completely bluffing very sparingly (maybe 5% if not less of the time) Was his call any good? IMO against my range it's terrible but i'm probably quite biased due to the fact it's me.

    Also is reraising preflop with just over 20 bbs any sort of option?
  2. Ajint Orange Ajint Orange is offline

    CT
    United States

    Posts: 253
    Joined: Feb 09

    Mar 21st, 2009 (3/21/2009 7:34am) in reply to smashed you bro

    When you step back from this and look at it critically, I think you'll find that the bluff wasn't very good.

    There are two ways to evaluate it.

    Versus Donk:

    You say that he's playing goofy, does that mean that you think he is incredibly loose and capable to playing and calling a raise with anything? If that is the case, then why try to bluff him with air? I think if he's as out of control as you imply with the comment about the KJo reraise from the SB, then there will be many chances to take his money by playing against him in position. If he's a super loose guy he could call you here with something like AT, and still be beating you.

    Part of what makes a bluff a good bluff is the read on your opponent that tells you that they are capable of folding. If you are trying to out think someone who isn't thinking, then you will regret it.

    Versus Thinking Player:

    What are you representing by pushing 21,000 chips over the top of someone on that flop? If you had trips, you wouldn't do that. Would you do that with top pair? Probably not. I think your push looks like someone on a flush draw that doesn't want to let his hand go.
  3. smashed you bro smashed you bro is offline

    New Zealand

    Posts: 79
    Joined: Dec 08

    Mar 21st, 2009 (3/21/2009 7:55am) in reply to Ajint Orange

    After thinking about it I realise that it was questionable against this player especially with a few good stealing opportunites to my left. Also, to a thinking player could my shove not be construed like an overpair such as 99/10 10? Which I'm doing quite frequently on such a drawing board. And if I was pushing with a flush draw I more than likely have two overcards to the board as well, making me a slight favourite, so wouldn't the call with 66 be a losing call in the long run? Sorry if that sounds defensive and i appreciate your help, but it just seems that against my normal range there the call is a losing one.
    Thread Starter
  4. Ajint Orange Ajint Orange is offline

    CT
    United States

    Posts: 253
    Joined: Feb 09

    Mar 21st, 2009 (3/21/2009 4:26pm) in reply to smashed you bro

    Well, if you had two overs and a flush draw, then you are very close to a 50/50 situation, although I think you'd still have slightly the best of it. With all the money in the middle, I think it would make it a fine call with the 66 if they knew that is what you had.

    I think the point that I most wanted to make is that some people can't be bluffed and you will pay a hefty price if you try bluffing them. It took me a while to learn this, but it's a valuable lesson.

    I'll give you an example. My father hates to fold. He has been knick-named the Sheriff in our home games because he will make sure everyone is honest. I also think he is super easy to read. I can't tell you how many times I figured him out as having just an Ace high and I bet enough that I knew there was no way he could call. But of course, he'd call and I'd be like 'how the hell did you call that with just an Ace high?!?'. He'd usually say something like, 'I knew that I had sh-it, but I knew you had worse sh-it'. Now I purely value bet him and he keeps paying me off. Other people that we play with keep trying to bluff him.

    Point of the story: You can't just read cards when bluffing, you must also read personalities. If you realized that he'd call your all-in with any pair, any draw, and any Ace, would you have tried to bluff in this spot? If the answer is yes, then your bluff was fine. If it is 'no', then your read of this player was off and that is something you should re-evaluate.
  5. rocksolid124 rocksolid124 is offline

    Denham Springs, LA
    United States

    Posts: 9,352
    Joined: Sep 06

    Mar 21st, 2009 (3/21/2009 5:10pm) in reply to smashed you bro

    Honestly...

    I'm not a HUGE fan at flatting pre there. Also not a fan of 3betting, as 3bet folding would be terribad with your stack size. As nitty as it sounds, I think a fold > flat call > 3bet.

    Not a fan of your shove on the flop at all tho. You're not getting worse hands to call, and you're definitely not getting many better hands to fold. Your shove looks so much like a draw. Also you're playing a 3 dollar tourney...no need to get fancy play syndrome.
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