the guy who kept shipping ftops events? or was it majors?

yeah..the guy that did well in some of the ftops and miniftops events..was one of the reasons why i picked him up...i knew he had potential to do well in bigger events if his leaks were addressed..and immediately after the incident, he moved from san diego back to the south east u.s. where he is originally from..

I mean..only reason i am even upset is cuz he hit some scores over last month or so where he could have paid us back and come out of this as a guy that was on hard times and cleaned himself up. he made no effort to do so, so i just want to warn others...

This is not the entire story, James is gonna post tomorrow. Pretty sure he has proof he was taken advantage of by JDPC to begin with and took back what was his..

This is none of my business but before there is several pages of hating i think everyone should wait for the other side of the story.

gl

Bob2bob is the nicest guy imo. in all my previous dealings with him i always felt he was trustworthy and always got my money back on time. he may be going through tough times as we all do at some stage in our lives. He did pay you back 2k and im sure he will eventually pay it all back..

james is one of the nicest guys i know and is completely trustworthy...ive heard both sides of the story and i feel bad for him

I honestly don't find this amuzing and tbh I feel bad for everyone that does. Complulsive gambling, unpayed debts - and people ending up in these situations only hurts poker as a whole - It's examples like these that are used when the anti-movement votes against legislation. Most likely Bob2bob is made out to be a victim of the system. (must add I'm not taking any standpoint in this conflict yet).

Hope your issues are solved.

I feel like Judge Judy right about now. We will see.

Pretty sad that two guys everybody knows/heard about, have to solve their differences in a public forum, which will lead to nothing good for all parts involved.

Oh I can't fall asleep nowwwwww

woah woah woah....i'm gonna nip this in the bud right now.

What bob2bob is referring to is when we first picked him up. he was 33k in make up at the time. his backer was desperate to get rid of him, even offering bob2bob the chance to buy himself out of mu ( i believe for around 9k, but i didn't know this conversation took place at that time). bob2bob didn't have the 9k or so and couldn't buy himself out of mu, so he told his backer he was willing to be sold.

We talked to bob2bob's backer and bob2bob on a conference call who sold bob2bob and his mu of 33k for around 8k. we made sure that bob2bob was cool with having new backers, let him know that we would also provide teaching and coaching, not just money and were invested in his long term success. We also asked him how he felt about being in 30k plus of mu and would he have a problem (life roll wise) while he was taking time to get out of mu, he said no. i can't prove that the number was mentioned on the phone call as i don't record phone calls, but i remember it being mentioned.

Bob2bob debuted for us a few days later and wouldn't u know it...his first week he final tables the miniftops main event i believe, and ends up hitting it for almost 50k.

Now this is where things get shady. the next day we send him his cut and he is asking for more, saying that he hit for us right away and that we only paid 8k for him, and he assumed that he came over to us only 8k in debt, and not 33k. Therefore he feels he should be getting an additional 12,000 or so.

Now understand, here was a kid a week before who was a ton in MU and couldn't play or make any income. Not only did we take a risk on the kid by buying him from his backer, but we also had an additonal 40k or so lined up behind him to support his play in the future.

so..he wanted us to only take 8k off the 50k and split the rest. I refused...i didn't see anywhere where he was accepting any of the blame for the misunderstanding between him and his old backer, that if someone else bought him, he came over at full mu. Now..this was a kid who had been backed for some time and hung out with other kids who were backed. he knew how backing worked, and he knew how the process of being sold to another backer worked...but all of a sudden, because he hit a big score, he wanted to pretend like he was clueless about backing and it was all our fault for making sure he didn't understand every single aspect....i mean..he wanted us to buy the story that he thought if someone bought you for 8k, that all the rest of ur mu just disappeared.. now had i known at the time how upset he truly was, i would have said u know what..we take equal blame..i would have halfed the mu to 16.5...take that off the 50k, then split the rest...then i would have sent him on his way and told him to never look my way for backing again...

i mean..i don't expect to have to explain to an adult how to tie their shoes...if they are wearing shoes, they should know how to tie them..

Now...we had him sign all of our standard agreements as they pertain to how money is distributed, sent to backers, how mu is calculated, etc and so forth, but the real mistake on my part is that we didn't draft an agreement that specifically listed that he bought him from his backer for 8k and he came over with 33k makeup. if i did, then he couldn't tell this fake story to his friends that they so readily believed.

Now...at the end of the day, even tho the kid was now out of mu and with cash in his pocket with people behind him for the long haul, i still felt bad for him and the misunderstanding...so we kicked him a couple extra k as a bonus and then we made the following deal with him..

in the future any time he split profits, we would give him a bigger than 50/50 split of the profits until he made an additional 15 or 20k i believe...so this would reward him if he continued to be profitable and if he didn't then we got the reward for the risk that we took, and we were still willing to throw the 40k or so behind him regardless.

now after that conversation he seemed content and he continued to play for us for several months....during that time he mostly however around 10k or so mu...i think he cleared mu once and was shipped his extra share as promised...and then howevered around 10k or so mu and thats around when the wsop series began.

the facts are the facts...he continued to play for us for SEVERAL MONTHS after that incident. always following our rules and shipping money as expected....not voicing displeasure or anything. now after the first day when he cleared mu and again a month or so before the wsop when he cleared mu, HE WAS FREE TO GO PLAY FOR WHOMEVER HE WANTED. yet he continued to play for us....

It was only after he got to the wsop, was playing bad poker and then added on to that by losing it all gambling, did he decide to up with our money, or maybe it was a plan of his all along...to hit another big score and then walk with it....but he was desperate and obv couldn't wait for the big score, so he took the 12k and ran.

When he finally got ahold of him several days later, he then tried to say it was cuz of the 50k incident from the beginning..that he was only taking what he thought was his..the 12k. But then i asked him...ok...even if the entire poker community agrees with you that it is totally my fault for you assuming your 33k mu was reduced to 8k which they wont, and even if i agreed with you , which i don't...you are currently 20k in mu. How do u propose to pay that back? and his response was, i have no idea.

and that was the last time i talked to the kid.

so..he can go dig up w/e logs he wants or tell whatever story he wants...these are the facts....i sure would like to know how i took advantage of the kid...all i ever tried to do was help him. i mean ask anyone in the backing/staking bizz...its super hard to get picked up when you are in mu even if u are a beast...unless the mu amount is small. the amount bob2bob was in mu was a lot of the general stakes he was playing...no one else was going to pick him up. The only reason i even thought it was a good idea was cuz the kid had decent fundamentals and i figured with him in san diego i could help him improve greatly as a player. TBH this kid is about as ungrateful as they come. if we had not picked him up...he wouldn't have been playing that week, would not have hit his score and w/o anyone to pick him up.

now i ask you....how the heck did i take advantage of this kid...i did nothing but try to give him an opportunity..one he blew over a lil bit of money....one that he blames on a supposed misunderstanding whereas personally i feel like the kid was just upset that he hit his score and wasn't going to get much of it..but thats how backing works when you are in a bunch of mu. He also won't have a good explanation of why he continued to play for us for months including after clearing MU where he was no longer obligated. i mean fuck it james, just admit it...you lost your shit in vegas, was on hard times, and upped with the money...at least then, i'd have some respect for you....but you continuing to try to justify what you did MONTHS after this supposed "misunderstanding"...gtfo.

look...i just wanted to warn members...i mean either you had this planned for months and were just waiting for your big score which is super shady or you fell on hard times and upped with the money which is still shady..i'm pretty much over it.....i mean..i was only in for half of that 18k and tbh, if u did send that 12k as u should have, i prob would have dropped u the next day....and just forgave the remaining 8k cuz after what i saw of u in vegas, i had seen enough bro. you aint cut out for this long term or for the stakes i had planned for you...

enough said.

JD

I don't think i would ever involve a horse in the negtiation of selling/buying a MU. It's not any of their business how much you paid for it.

having said that, as a horse if i knew you paid 8 for 33, i would at least like to see it set at 16-20k.

Makeup is often cut down with some of the bigger buys but it's always expressly mentioned/agreed upon, for instance someone being 100k in makeup and being bought for 20kish the backer might cut 10-20k off the makeup to give the player more hope. Unless he can prove with legitimate chat logs that you agreed to cut some of his 33k down as an incentive after being bought, then it has to be assumed the same makeup still stands.
Even if he showed chat logs he still looks like a scumbag for playing for several months without expressing his concerns and waiting for the chance to bink a big score to take off with.

 

Originally Posted by pinishe45

if im in 30k mu and someone buys my 30k, and i hit a 30k score....

i have no monies seems simple

dont you dare bring logic into this thread

Welcome back to jacksonville Bob!

 

Originally Posted by icufish

what if you had a contract from a new backer that said the makeup buyout was 8.25k and no other number concerning makeup was listed anywhere in the contract? what would you assume your makeup was?

seems like a good question to ask before you start playing under your new backer