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Bodog 100k, busting early w QQ

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  1. bkvt17 bkvt17 is offline

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    Jul 5th, 2011 (7/5/2011 2:46pm)

    I played the bodog 100k Sunday, start with 5k in chips and a mix of players. I late reg after 30min and this hand came up about 10 min later, I had no reads.

    I start the hand with just over 5k, blinds 30/60.

    UTG +1 limps for 60, MP raises to 240, hijack has 7k raises to 712.

    I have QQ in the SB, what would you do here? If the player was a known good player what would you do?

    I flat call, limper and original raiser fold.

    Flop comes 8h 6d 4h, pot is 1755. How would you proceed?

    I check and he bets pot, what would you do next?
    Edited By: bkvt17 Jul 5th, 2011 at 07:49 PM
     
  2. ThaSlosh23 ThaSlosh23 is online now

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    Jul 5th, 2011 (7/5/2011 4:00pm) in reply to wackyJaxon

    It's hard to know where you stand.
    He could have KK or AA, but a pot sized bet on the flop kinda seems weak to me.
    If he was betting for value I think he'd want to keep you in, and he'd bet somewhere around 900-1000, which leads me to believe he's got AK and is hoping the c-bet takes the pot right there.

    Did you have a plan for post-flop play once you flatted his raise OOP?
    I probably would have either jammed given your stack size, or put in a small 4-bet to see where you are.

    Then again, you've made a lot more money than I have, so my opinion shouldn't count for much ;).
    GL
  3. tyson219 tyson219 is online now Moderator

    New York, NY
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    Jul 5th, 2011 (7/5/2011 6:16pm) in reply to ThaSlosh23

    Pretty crappy spot. With no reads, I'm probably just folding and kicking myself later when I realize it could easily be 77-QQ or AJ+. If I had seen the villain do one spewy thing all tournament, I'd probably raise to 2500 and jam any flop. But with no reads, you have such a huge skill edge in this tournament, I don't see a need to get it in when villain's range should be TT+,AK (QQ has 52.4% equity, not enough for me to risk almost 100bbs in a soft field). That said, I was 4-bet in Merge 100k at 15/30 with 77...so maybe getting it in is the best option. To summarize, i have no clue...probably folding though.

    As played, pot bet is odd, but since there's a button for it I don't read into it all that much. could be AK or also an overpair protecting against the flush draw in the only way he knows how. Probably folding though because more often than not, that seems to be an overpair when it's a weak player early in a big tournament.

    Against a capable villain...idk. The limper complicates it a bit. I think it becomes very player dependent. I doubt most solid players are 3-betting with worse than TT+,AK in that spot. Against a solid player flatting looks super strong (if he knows you're capable) so I flat and re-eval on the flop.
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  4. Sagacious Man Sagacious Man is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2011 (7/6/2011 6:29am) in reply to tyson219

    The pot size bet could be a scared AA or other pairs or it could be 2 overs. His line does look very strong so I agree that it's probably a fold unless you have seen some spewy behaviour previously. I don't think it's a good idea to shove just because there are worse hands in his range, for a random his range is should actually be very narrow.
  5. hussainsajwani hussainsajwani is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2011 (7/6/2011 7:46am) in reply to Sagacious Man

    funny i had an exact situation in a big BI on stars before black friday and i folded but when i asked for feedback two other regs told me they never fold. i however stand my ground and always fold here against random. imo 5k vs 10k stack this early isnt much different in a big buy in where later in tournament better players and flips can get better off you regardless of ur stack
     
  6. Flopnuts1 Flopnuts1 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2011 (7/6/2011 9:52am) in reply to hussainsajwani

    Don't love it, but fold pf. 3b over limp and raise from that position seems very strong especially this early. Marginal spot with this action so no need to really get involved IMO.
  7. matze_widi matze_widi is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2011 (7/6/2011 1:46pm) in reply to Flopnuts1

    idkbut w/o a solid read i prolly fold too pf.
    if he get this in we rarely have the best hand and flatting OOP kind sucks cause in 95% of the flops we gonna start a thread anyway
    the pot cbet kinda looks scared AA or KK to me, dont think AK is betting that much
    thats why folding pre is prolly best considering how often we puke on the flop if he bets biggish
     
  8. neuby neuby is offline

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    Jul 8th, 2011 (7/8/2011 3:53am) in reply to matze_widi

    pretty sure im jamming my stack here pf. sucks if hes got the goods. Im hoping for AK.gg me if not...
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  9. bkvt17 bkvt17 is offline

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    Jul 14th, 2011 (7/14/2011 1:14am) in reply to neuby

    Good info thanks guys. So I basically decided to flat pre with the intention of check raising all in most flops. Given that everyone was at 5k, it was early and he had 7k I was kinda hoping he was a loose bad random. I check raised all in on the flop and he snapped with KKs, GG.
     
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  10. djdoodoo djdoodoo is offline

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    Jul 14th, 2011 (7/14/2011 1:49am) in reply to bkvt17

    Did the MP call? i'm flatting, checking flop then folding to the pot bet.
  11. Trembath29 Trembath29 is offline

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    Jul 18th, 2011 (7/18/2011 6:14pm) in reply to djdoodoo

     
    Originally Posted by Reece Throop View Post

    i'm flatting, checking flop then folding to the pot bet.

    Just a point here... isn't that ridiculously spewy? Essentially that's turning QQ into a setmine and we nowhere near have the implied odds for that... if you're flatting and c/f any flop that isn't a Q, surely it may as well be 22 and it's a fold pre? Because surely we will face a c-bet 100% of the time in this spot.
  12. grandmamoneybags grandmamoneybags is offline

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    Jul 18th, 2011 (7/18/2011 8:05pm) in reply to Trembath29

    click it back anf fold to a shove... He def doesn't have a 6b bluff in him and doubt he is really going to go with it w/ AK w/ 6k+ behind at 30/60. may be awful but i don't like flatting that big w/ ppl left to act oop, not a fan of folding but it's def got some merit to it as well your still super deep can live to fight another day. I just think pretty often w/ a cold 5b in the sml blind it looks like AA and you can take it down pre or narrow his range to KK+ w/ a shove from him.
  13. tyson219 tyson219 is online now Moderator

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    Jul 18th, 2011 (7/18/2011 9:13pm) in reply to grandmamoneybags

     
    Originally Posted by grandmamoneybags View Post

    click it back anf fold to a shove... He def doesn't have a 6b bluff in him and doubt he is really going to go with it w/ AK w/ 6k+ behind at 30/60. may be awful but i don't like flatting that big w/ ppl left to act oop, not a fan of folding but it's def got some merit to it as well your still super deep can live to fight another day. I just think pretty often w/ a cold 5b in the sml blind it looks like AA and you can take it down pre or narrow his range to KK+ w/ a shove from him.

    This is turning QQ into a bluff. Would you make the same play with 22-JJ? Or ATC for that matter?

    I think the only options are to 4b/get it in or fold. Anything else is just spewing chips. At 30/60 in a soft field, I'd rather puke fold than risk my entire stack in a spot where I'm hoping to be flipping. I don't see a point to flipping for 90bbs against a weak field when you can easily accumulate chips in other ways.
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  14. grandmamoneybags grandmamoneybags is offline

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    Jul 19th, 2011 (7/19/2011 8:43am) in reply to tyson219

     
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    This is turning QQ into a bluff. Would you make the same play with 22-JJ? Or ATC for that matter?

    I think the only options are to 4b/get it in or fold. Anything else is just spewing chips. At 30/60 in a soft field, I'd rather puke fold than risk my entire stack in a spot where I'm hoping to be flipping. I don't see a point to flipping for 90bbs against a weak field when you can easily accumulate chips in other ways.

    puke folding is best prob. i just think flatting that big a bet oop is going to be really tough to play and 4b/c seems really bad. So yeah i guess fold but if you can find a 5b just don't see how we can call a 6b being crushed. your left w/ 50 bigs. Doubt it's optimal just suck it up and lay it down. tryin to think outside the box haven't played a online tournament since Bf really.

    22-jj i prob just fold tbh
    Edited By: grandmamoneybags Jul 19th, 2011 at 08:43 AM
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