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broken random number generators

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  1. at_a_2d at_a_2d is offline

    Hayden, ID
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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 8:59am)

    Although the sites claim independent verification of their rng's insures they're random...I have my doubts. Wonder if anyone else has seen "momentary lapse of randomness" I've observed. Once last year I received quads twice in three hands, 2 days ago in a sng I saw AA, KK, and QQ delt to 3 of the 6 players at the table in the same hand. I'll bet dealers w/20 years experience haven't seen that.
  2. PokerJoker99 PokerJoker99 is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:04am) in reply to at_a_2d

    Your sample size of 3 hands is some pretty compelling evidence. I'd say you're onto something here.
  3. wowswift wowswift is offline Fold to cash, skeet to win.

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:06am) in reply to at_a_2d

  4. SquareRoot2 SquareRoot2 is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:07am) in reply to at_a_2d

    Just because you see occurences of rare events does not mean there is a flaw in a RNG. By nature, randomness means that these rare events WILL happen. If you never saw these events, then I'd worry that there was a problem.

    -Erik
  5. bravecow bravecow is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:31am) in reply to at_a_2d

    I got AA 7 times in a FPP tourney on stars in 45 minutes not long ago. No I did not win, I busted out the 7th time, Lost to suited AK straight ALL IN PRE FLOP !!!
    What are the odds that? Also, I played 2744 hands cash game with out getting AA. What are the odds of that ? And when I did get AA again, I was so weary, wouldnt quit untill I got those BIG BAD ROCKETS, 29 hrs session, I Folded , No JK
    I called all in PReflop raise to QQ, and they hit the set. I know the odds of that one. Last night in an 18 player sit and go I made it to the final table with about
    2,700. After about 2 hands one player was gone. About 18 hands later I Won. I single handly won every hand except for about 4. Quads, Stra8 flush, AK,Ak, KK, AA, JJ, KQ. What are the odds of that. I can produce hand historys of all of this.

    So the randon generator is not so random ? I thought long and hard about that after these three phenoms. I dont know.
  6. at_a_2d at_a_2d is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:39am) in reply to SquareRoot2

    good point. 2x quads in 3 hands more often would tend to validate the randomness. maybe once a day would really be random, more often even better/ more random yet.
    Thread Starter
  7. buchiYAYO buchiYAYO is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:44am) in reply to at_a_2d

    Well one time on stars I saw 5 hands in a row that were 5 on the board clubs. I thought that was super strange, it was NL cash game, on the 4/5 hand I had an Ac X aand pushed all in and got called by who knows what but guess what it was ccc c c. wee. I dont know if it continued b/c I left the table after the 5th hand. Im pretty sure something was up there.
  8. marinersjj marinersjj is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:45am) in reply to bravecow

    you're saying its not random because you got AA a lot? (7x over 3hrs ~150 hands)
    you're saying its not random because you never got AA? (0x over 2744 hands)

    sometimes people run bad. sometimes good. don't overthink this too much. its random.
  9. PokerJoker99 PokerJoker99 is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:49am) in reply to at_a_2d

    What kind of logic is that? Seeing improbable things happen more often means that the system is more random? LLLLLLOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL
  10. pokerwill pokerwill is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:50am) in reply to buchiYAYO

    one time during a 36 hour seesion of multiytabling 6 sng's i got a SNAP card dealt to me what are the odds of that ay??? i folded pf aqnd woulda got snap, rigged.
  11. PokerJoker99 PokerJoker99 is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:53am) in reply to at_a_2d

    Once I was dealth either AA, AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KK, KQ, KJ, KT, QQ, QJ, QT, JJ, JT, or TT EVERY HAND FOR OVER 100 HANDS STRAIGHT. Also the board was always full of AKQJTs. For a while I thought it was a serious glitch. Then I realized I was playing "Royal" Hold'em and that there were no deuces through nines in the deck. OOPS
  12. peeved peeved is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:55am) in reply to buchiYAYO

    I just pushed KK in the $8.80 rebuy and the flop came KK7 rainbow. Turn and river were no help, but my quads held up.
  13. BlindPyro BlindPyro is offline microlifer

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 9:58am) in reply to at_a_2d

    These strange and improbable occurances happen live as well. I was playing a small $2/$5 NL game at Harrahs once and was dealt AA 3 times in 4 hands. These hands came from 2 decks using in table automatic shufflers. I won both times I had Aces in the two blinds, but when I had them in the cutoff I lost to a guy who came over the top of my re-pop for $400 allin pre. He had QQ and flopped a set. When you lose with aces it's not just because you won the last 6 times you had them. Sometimes aces lose. improbable doesn't mean impossible.
  14. peeved peeved is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:01am) in reply to BlindPyro

    Same here. Live casino game KK 4/5 hands, 3 held.
  15. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:03am) in reply to at_a_2d

    Some very clear examples of online poker being

    <SPAN>RIGGED!!!</SPAN>
  16. Adam Adam is offline Emperor

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:04am) in reply to at_a_2d

    "momentary lapses of randomness"

    Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

    Getting dealt AA is equally likely to getting dealt 26. The difference is that with one of them, you barely pay attention it and throw it in the muck, and the other, you get excited and want to put all your chips in the middle. It doesn't mean that the AA (or quads or whatever) is somehow "less random" than the 2 6.

    "I'll bet dealers w/20 years experience haven't seen that."

    In the first big live tournament I played in, I busted out with QQ vs. QQ vs. KK. Someone else said they mucked a pair of tens preflop.

    One time playing a 1-2 NL game in Tunica, I saw a guy flop quads with QQ, make a huge bet, and have another guy move in on him with nothing at all (the guy who moved in had KJ on a flop of something like QQ8). The turn and river gave the K J guy a royal flush.

    Now these are undoubtably crazy hands, maybe worth writing home about, but they are no "less random" than any other hands. Dealers with 20 years of experience have seen everything, and players who see several thousand hands a day online have seen everything after probably 6 months.
     
  17. marinersjj marinersjj is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:09am) in reply to Adam

    thank you. adam's finally hit the nail on the head:

    online poker random number generators do, in fact, generate random numbers.

    ...and live poker is rigged.

    good night and good luck.
  18. pokerwill pokerwill is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:10am) in reply to Adam

    OMFG I just realised, online poker really is RIGGED......... no one is safe.
  19. Banned1 Banned1 is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:16am) in reply to peeved

    So far, no one has actually managed to make a PC randomly shuffle a deck of cards, surprisingly, it is actually a very difficult thing to do. There a several different RNG systems, ranging from using the variance in output frequency of a zenon diode to multiple encryption passes - the latter being the better system but not without its shortcomings. The principle shortcoming being that you will often see the best 20 cards from the 29 dealt (on a 10 player table) re-appearing in the next deal. This is why you see so many high value cards compared to a live game. For more information, google: random number generation+poker.
  20. Jiffman Jiffman is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:16am) in reply to marinersjj

    Except you're not the same to get AA as 6-2, because there are more ways to you can be dealt 6-2 than AA...

    Silly nit-picking, obv. But this is a thread about 'broken RNGs' so I thought genuinely constructive/sensible/useful posts were probably pointless.
  21. PokerJoker99 PokerJoker99 is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:17am) in reply to Jiffman

    no, Adam was careful to include the exact suit of the cards in his example. It is the same.
  22. Banned1 Banned1 is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:18am) in reply to pokerwill

    GRRRRRROOOOOOOAAAAANNNNNNNN
  23. Jiffman Jiffman is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:26am) in reply to PokerJoker99

    Haha so now you can see just how good I am at poker, look how spookily observant I am!
  24. mindwise mindwise is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:27am) in reply to at_a_2d

    Some of the sickest hands I've ever seen were all played live ... and I've barely played live.
     
  25. FlopEm FlopEm is offline

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    Feb 6th, 2007 (2/6/2007 10:46am) in reply to at_a_2d

    They can't guarantee randomness, only an acceptable level. That being said i've seen some strange random events. The ones I remember most vividly is getting the exact same, and to a lesser degree the same valued, hole cards on two tables open at the same time. I get Jh7d on one table, look over at table 2 and there is Jh7d looking at me.

    I've also noticed a lot of situations where similar flop cards come down like KhTh8c and KhTd8s. I'm sure it's all within the statistical probablity for 1 million hands but it looks really weird when it's happening.
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