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See Where You Rank in Washington

  1. PokerStars Game #4108651358: Tournament #19571119, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/02/26 - 17:45:56 (ET)
    Table '19571119 271' Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: cattleman (3195 in chips)
    Seat 2: Sprayed (2405 in chips)
    Seat 3: brsavage (4490 in chips)
    Seat 4: Dg0016 (3600 in chips)
    Seat 5: paulieballs (3800 in chips)
    Seat 6: Goods123 (8090 in chips)
    Seat 7: chipnchair63 (3075 in chips)
    Seat 8: Brandonfost (725 in chips)
    Seat 9: Ssamjang (554 in chips)
    brsavage: posts small blind 50
    Dg0016: posts big blind 100
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Dg0016 [As Kd]
    paulieballs: raises 200 to 300
    Goods123: folds
    chipnchair63: folds
    Brandonfost: folds
    Ssamjang: folds
    cattleman: folds
    Sprayed: folds
    brsavage: calls 250
    Dg0016: raises 3300 to 3600 and is all-in
    paulieballs: raises 200 to 3800 and is all-in
    brsavage: folds
    *** FLOP *** [Td 8s 5h]
    Dg0016 said, "one time"
    *** TURN *** [Td 8s 5h] [4h]
    *** RIVER *** [Td 8s 5h 4h] [9s]
    Dg0016 said, "nh"
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Dg0016: shows [As Kd] (high card Ace)
    paulieballs: shows [Qh Qd] (a pair of Queens)
    brsavage said, "gg"
    paulieballs collected 7500 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 7500 | Rake 0
    Board [Td 8s 5h 4h 9s]
    Seat 1: cattleman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Sprayed (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: brsavage (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: Dg0016 (big blind) showed [As Kd] and lost with high card Ace
    Seat 5: paulieballs showed [Qh Qd] and won (7500) with a pair of Queens
    Seat 6: Goods123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: chipnchair63 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: Brandonfost folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: Ssamjang folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Add Dg0016 to Rail
  2. no
    1
    Add gbmantis to Rail
  3. Do you think that was the right play there?..... im just trying really hard to get better at tourneys.
    Thread StarterAdd Dg0016 to Rail
  4. Yes this is a bad play, a more appropriate raise would have been to 800-1000 then if someone came over the top you could still get away from it, you want to isolate one opponent here but raising to 3600 is just ridiculous

    $
    Raise
    Add Cmoney3 to Rail
  5. paulieballs: raises 200 to 300
    Goods123: folds
    chipnchair63: folds
    Brandonfost: folds
    Ssamjang: folds
    cattleman: folds
    Sprayed: folds
    brsavage: calls 250
    Dg0016: raises 3300 to 3600 and is all-in

    Depends on table and situation, but doesn't this give away that paulie's Queens are good?
    Raise
    Add AceRunner to Rail
  6. You weren't desperate, and it was a first position raise, so i smooth call.

    Gl,

    Chris.
     1
    Add brsavage to Rail
  7. pushing is fine.

    you're gonna be racing most the time but you also have fold equity.

    its not a bad play.

    smooth calling is weak IMO.
    1
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  8. i agree with gb.
     
    Add Adam to Rail
  9. ***edit.... i have no clue .... need to get someone to work with me in tourneys
    Thread StarterAdd Dg0016 to Rail
  10. I really dont think the fold equity is high enough to make this a winning play. By pushing all in there you are telling your opponent you have AK. You have plenty of chips and I agree with BR that calling is the best play.
    Raise
    Add LatestLines2 to Rail
  11. f that, you're not telling him shit.

    I make the same play w/ JJ or QQ
    1
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  12. Yea i really think i would have made the same play with KK right there.. so i really don't feel im giving away my hand and even if he knows i got AK he is not that far ahead. IMO at that point I thought i had good fold equity b/c for me to do that i had to have a big and all the guy could really could hope i had was AK.
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Dg0016 to Rail
  13. You're only going to get called by a hand thats ahead of you. You can make that same play with JJ and QQ sure but once again you're probably only going to get called by a hand thats ahead of you. I'd actually prefer making the move with AK over JJ or QQ.
    Raise
    Add LatestLines2 to Rail
  14. Add Nova2000 to Rail
  15. you are getting good fold equity.

    take the pot down.

    this is a tournament, your goal is to ACCUMULATE.

    take it down by pushing , or flip a coin.
    1
    Add gbmantis to Rail
  16. on another note, by pushing you give ak a chance to fold and you take it down instead of chopping or letting him take it on the flop
    1
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  17. I make huge pushes like that with AA occasionally vs. the right player cause I know ill get a call from a mid pair who thinks "obviously he has ak"...
    I dont think its a bad play, maybe not the best either. Either way you are playing ak in that spot even if you pop it to 3x his original bet...
    Raise

    apestyles is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

    Add apestyles to Rail
  18. Let me ask you this mr Mantis...At what point do you have too many chips to be pushing all in that situation with AK?
    Add LatestLines2 to Rail
  19. Was it a horrible play? Absolutely not. Do some of the top players play it this way....absolutely.

    But, as some stated, it just wasn't necessary. Risking your entire tournament on a coin flip when you have a decent stack isn't how I'd like to go out. Yes, AK is a strong hand, but it's still a drawing hand.

    The only time I would suggest pushing here is if you think you're just outmatched at the table and will take coin flips to gain chips. Otherwise, just call and look at a flop. If you miss, there is still PLENTY of time.
    Raise
    Add gianmarco to Rail
  20. you need to "protect your hand"

    sure, ak is a "drawing hand," but alot of the times in that spot you will be ahead.

    Take down the pot while you can.

    If you have to race, so be it. It is better to push than to call in that spot IMO.

    Picking up pots w/o showdowns is what mtt poker is all about.
    1
    Raise
    Add gbmantis to Rail
  21. DONT EVER RISK UR TOURNEY MENT EVER U COULD BE VS KK ORR AA AND THEN GO BROKE POINT IS NEVER GET MOBNEY IN WITHOUT MONSTAR HAND EVAAAAAR THAT IS WINNING POPKKER THAT IS ALLL

    Any raise commits you, and anything but all in gives them a chance to stopn go or wait for a favorable flop. 750 is in the pot. Pushing here is BIG +EV. Smooth call is certainly not -EV, and isn't an awful play, but I don't think it is the best option.

    If stacks were a couple thousand deeper, I believe pushing would no longer be the optimal line, and you should consider smooth calling or making a normal reraise. Either play would be acceptable.
    1
    Raise
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  22. Mantis, you're obviously a successful MTT player so I'm not questioning whether it's right or wrong. I dont' think there is a right or wrong answer, personally. What I don't understand is what is the need to race in this situation, especially coming from a talented player like you? Why so desperate?

    There are obviously different styles of play. If someone pushes all in in the 1st hand of a tournament and I'm holding AK or JJ, I just fold. Some people call easily. I just don't see the need to risk a tournament on one hand when it just isn't necessary when I'm a marginal favorite at best. With 3600 chips left and blinds of 50/100, there is no hurry. He can see 30-40 hands easily without worry and surely a better situation can come up. Still time to look at a few hands and play some poker, not gamble on a coin flip.

    Again, I'm not saying it's a horrible play. Sometimes I get the feeling to push too. But I like to think I'm a good enough player to wait for a better spot. I can call and look at a flop and play from there. If I miss and have 3300 left, I'm not worried because I feel I'm good enough to find a better spot. That's all I'm saying. If he has anything less than 2500 chips here, then I think it's an easy push. But at 3600, just not necessary is all, IMO
    Raise
    Add gianmarco to Rail
  23. You guys keep pushing against the UTG raiser when you are no where near desperate and it is a losing move, period. The only hand that calls you is favored over you... Push late in tournaments when it is more likely that other players are desperate and subject to be raising and calling with inferior hands, but don't do it early when you have no reason to.....

    Also, did you notice that I smooth called in this hand... What hand did you think I had?

    Gl,

    Chris
     1
    Raise
    Add brsavage to Rail
  24. I agree with you Chris, I'd call for the reasons you listed and you might have some of my outs too.
    Add FriedFish to Rail
  25. I am going to just not respond and allow you to continue to enjoy your 10% ROI
    1
    Add ActionJeff to Rail
  26. I think you had A K as well br...
    Add brixman25 to Rail
  27. Brsavage had JJ?
    Add Davio to Rail
  28. br,

    you're the man, but you're wrong.

    by smooth calling, you get NO fold equity, and you are letting the other guy take control of the hand.

    if he has aa or kk you might still lose all of your chips regardless.

    plus, if you are up against jj or qq, and the flop comes A24, you lose all of your value of the hand.

    you are giving up so much value by smooth calling ak here.

    gl,

    -mantis
    1
    Raise
    Add gbmantis to Rail
  29. Sounds to me like br had AK
     
    Add Adam to Rail
  30. I agree with gb.

    You can't smoothe call AFTER br calls.

    MAYBE... you could call if br had folded, because you'd be heads up against an EP raiser who could hold 88-QQ, AK, AQ, AJs....

    If the flop comes out A25 against AQ, well you're getting all his chips - but your totally relying on flopping a King or Ace, because your out of pos, and especially since your giving him credit for a big hand if he's an EP raiser..

    A lot of players make that EP riase with hands like T9s...

    Also, I really can't agree with the posters who are saying "you're only going to get called by a stronger hand then AK in that spot" - i think thats rediculous.. TONNES of ppl have the mentality, "put one chip in, put 'em all in" and probably call with AQ, AJ, AT, even KQ KJ etc..

    I like the push. It's a big huge squeeze against a EPer, but I only really like it if you're going to make the same play with QQ-AA as well, because as someone said, they'll put you on AK, and TT looks pretty darn good there.
    Raise
    Add gidders to Rail

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