My buddy and I both played a live $150 tourney the other night and he told me he made a great fold late on the $ bubble. The tourney started with 80 people and only 20 minute blinds so the structure got crazy towards the end. They were down to 10 (1 spot away from $) bb is 8k and utg +1 made it 25k. My buddies stack is 60k, so roughly 7.5bb, but he has several people covered and one guy at his table only has like 2bb. He tanks for a bit and folds AK because he wants to cash (he doesn't have a job right now so hes not properly rolled to be playing tourneys anyway, he also says villain has been playing solid all day.) So its a 5 handed table and he folds AK to guarantee cash, then gets 7th place for $420. My advice to him was that he should be shoving that spot because if he wins he is 2nd or 3rd in chips and in good position to win, and long term this is what you have to do to maximize overall profit. Am I correct with this advice? 5 handed the odds of him having a weaker ace or two random face cards or something like a lower pair are very possible and anything up to QQ and it's a coin flip. Villain did flip over QQ and my buddy was ecstatic. So my question is would you always shove there not knowing your opponents hand? And even in the same situation late on a short handed table when you think your opponent has something like 10 10 through QQ would you still shove that spot or call an all in with 7.5bb?

Always freaking shove.. I was in a $250 2 day at a local poker room and opened UTG with AK with about 15 BB on teh bubble of day 2. Some super-tight woman I watched flat pre in position with AQ a couple hand before piled on me. I Called she had QQ and i lost. but you have to Get it in with AK in a coinflip man. HAVE TO. and if you dont have money to play you shouldnt be playing. you play to win. not get 4x your money. at that point just play $20 home games

 

Originally Posted by Chipcollecta21

Yeah I agree with you. At least he made it there though, I have some serious run bad in me. I got it all in with 40bb with 66 on a 6qj rainbow board, dumbass flips over 99, says he was trying to give up, and turns 10, rivers k for straight. Then I still had a healthy stack and got it in with AA vs. kj after flop of j high. He bet 2k, I raised to 5k, and he shoved for 10k bb was 400. Then I still have 3k on the button, shove in to the big blind, and get snapped by KK. It's been going like this for awhile now and it's disgusting.

Yep my buddy's been running bad too. Getting 150bb in on Q high flop with AQ vs. Q7 turn 7... he says "I had to call" fckn DOLTS MAN!

 

Originally Posted by Wesss

insta shuv for your buddy. sick that it was qq but a lot of times he is up vs aq / ajs but yes a flip mostly. + some stupid pairs fold to a shuv because of the same reasons ur buddy played like an ultra nit here. they may much 22 to 88 thinking; i may be dominated and can sneak into the pay by folding.

side note:try to think of your long term ev and get excited when they call w/ < 5 outs so what they hit this one time. the next 4 times they don't... funny to be happy when someone sux out. Your more happy that these type of players exist and want to stick stacks in because " they are giving up". great for u most of the time. just a thought, still sux for the drive home.

Yeah thanks for the advice. I completely agree and understand that I shouldn't belittle the bad players or say anything to them bad about their play too because I want them back in that same spot tomorrow and the next day, etc. And I didn't say anything to them but it was very difficult watching both of those idiots playing at the final table with my buddy. It's been really frustrating though for me lately. Too many sets of JJ's losing to 46 flush draws late in mtt's and seems like every final table I lose with AA against ak or 88. If this variance actually changes in my direction I think big things will come.

if your not playing for first you should not be playing at all

 

Originally Posted by Gags30

i mean, you have AK with 7bb, it's clearly a spot that's pretty easy to put your money in.

with that being said...this may not be as bad of a fold as everyone is making it out to be. for starters, this isn't really an mtt, only 9 are being paid, it's basically a sng. also, in a lot of these daily tourneys in casinos the payouts are really flat. if first isn't that much more than 9th, then there's really not that big of an incentive to try to win, and you want to guarantee that you cash. the last thing that factors into this is the read on the opponent. there are some players that, believe it or not, will NOT raise in a spot like this with AQ or worse. so then their raising range only becomes something like TT+...well guess what, AK doesn't do that well vs that range. sure, you dont' find many players like this online, where people are much more likely to raise with, idk, more than the top 4% of hands (lol), or raise lightish here. in a withered live tourney with mostly old men, ti's possible the guy's range is super tight tho

but all things put together, it seems like your friend made far from a genius fold, and just wanted to cash. despite everything i said, i would instantly put my money in here.

moral of this story: don't play tourneys you're under-rolled for, so you can actually make correct strategic decisions

Thanks for the input Gags. 1st was $2600 + $500 satteliite for a $2500 tourney coming up top 20% make it in that tourney. 2nd $2100 I think 3rd like $1500 or so. So pretty stacked top 3 like you would expect. Either way he has to shove and pray. At what point do you flat that same situation, 15bb? 20bb?