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Bust out hand in WSOP #3...advice please

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  1. sp227 sp227 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 1:42pm)

    Ok guys, how would you play this hand? I mean there are a few ways to play this so I would like some feedback on what others would do in this situation.

    After a brief 4-6 hands of choatic eliminations early into Day 2 we were down to about 19 tables with an average stack of about 50k with blinds at 1500/3000 with a 400 ante. I have 22k and it's folded to me in middle postion and I look down at 44. Now in my mind there was only two options, allin or fold and look for a better hand within this and the next orbit. I thought I couldn't limp and then fold to a raise...way to weak with my stack. I would like to see what others would do here. Thanks
  2. JagrFTW JagrFTW is offline

    Valley Stream, NY
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 1:44pm) in reply to sp227

    i push, im assuming there are 9 players and 4500+3600 = 8100 so your M is less than 3.

    Insta push
  3. Hitman Hitman is offline

    Joliet, IL
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 1:46pm) in reply to sp227

    I'm all in.
  4. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 1:46pm) in reply to sp227

    Push all day.
     
  5. sean614 sean614 is offline

    Haddonfield, NJ
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 1:49pm) in reply to sp227

    I would probably minraise and fold to a min reraise. Although if someone pushed me in I would call.
  6. sp227 sp227 is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 1:56pm) in reply to sp227

    To be honest I think I'm just rehashing this hand in my head when I knew all along that a push was the right play 100% of the time. 2nd best scenario happened I guess when a guy called with AK...
    Thread Starter
  7. Krusty Krusty is offline

    Atlanta, GA
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 1:56pm) in reply to sp227

    Insta-push and pray no callers. If so, hopefully you are racing.
  8. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 2:52pm) in reply to sp227

    I think you might have to push here, no matter what. It's folded to you and it's a pocket pair. I hate doing it, beause if you have a big stack as a blind, they can call with any 2, and then your likely racing. But, you are going to be in middle position. No use giving any free cards here.

    Push, if your called, and you more than double up, you are going to be right around average, and in a decent spot to be competitive.
  9. Faaantastic Faaantastic is offline

    Highland, NY
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 2:54pm) in reply to lordxixor101

    <table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#eeeedd"><td><table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>sean614 on 6/4/2007 12:49 </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><nobr> </nobr> </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td bgcolor="#ffffff"></td><td colspan="2"><table celspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"><tbody><tr><td>I would probably minraise and fold to a min reraise. Although if someone pushed me in I would call.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>i lol'd
    now just praying you're joking cause im honestly not 100% sure
  10. thefuture021 thefuture021 is offline

    Dallas, TX
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 2:56pm) in reply to sp227

    push
  11. BrooDogg BrooDogg is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 2:57pm) in reply to Faaantastic

    u only have 7 bb's.... u have to push there no matter what. IMO
     
  12. d2themfi d2themfi is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 2:58pm) in reply to sp227

    Push all day. From ur description, it looks like you at least cashed, if so congrats!!!
     
  13. BrooDogg BrooDogg is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 2:59pm) in reply to d2themfi

    oh ya, and sean614, I hope that comment is a joke, cause that would be such a HORRIBLE play.
     
  14. sean614 sean614 is offline

    Haddonfield, NJ
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 3:47pm) in reply to BrooDogg

    whats wrong with that play? If he minreraises you, you obv know your beat. If he shoves you in hes obv bluffing. Pretty standard IMHO.
  15. sp227 sp227 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 3:50pm) in reply to sean614

    LOL I don't know if you are still serious or joking. I have no read on you even after your two posts
    Thread Starter
  16. sean614 sean614 is offline

    Haddonfield, NJ
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 3:55pm) in reply to sp227

    I don't think its that hard of a concept to understand. Minraise=strength 100% of times. Over shoves=bluff 60% of times.

    I'll take it for what its worth and we can agree to disagree.
  17. BrooDogg BrooDogg is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 3:56pm) in reply to sp227

    LOL... Sean, if u min raise there you're putting in 30% of your stack. If you fold after someone min raises you back then you'll be left with 5 big blinds. You're already in the cutoff, so u only have a few hands to push again. Basically you'd be kicking yourself for not pushing the 4-4 preflop, and you'll be seeking another golden opportunity like you just had.

    With 7 bb's there is still a chance you will get people to fold. But not with 5 bb's, your range is WAY too weak.
     
  18. sean614 sean614 is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 4:00pm) in reply to BrooDogg

    say you fold to a min reraise, yeah you lost 30% of your stack but you will undoubtedly barring a miracle be losing 100% of your stack if you go to flop that way. Your fold will still leave you 5 bb's to shove whenever you want which is not that hard of a play.
  19. BrooDogg BrooDogg is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 4:02pm) in reply to sean614

    Well, I just think it's a very poor play, I'll leave it at that.
     
  20. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

    White Rock
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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 4:04pm) in reply to BrooDogg

    Broodog I disagree. You are min raising with a speculative hand. You don't want to commit all your chips here. If he min raises you back you know he's just trying to entice you to call. A push is just a bully trying to steal your ships. He could have any 2. This is an important lesson for anyone who wants to reach the next step in poker.
     
  21. BrooDogg BrooDogg is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 4:14pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    "A push is just a bully trying to steal your chips."

    I don't think anyone is dumb enough to do this. A good player should know that if someone with only 7 bb's is putting in 2 bets that they are more than willing to put the other 5 in.

    ---------------------------------

    Aside from that, I really can't believe I'm talking about this. I mean, the guy has 7 bb's!!!!! AUTO PUSH!
     
  22. JBT449 JBT449 is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 4:16pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    loooooool folding to a minraise???, u guys MUST be kidding, hypothetically the big blind could be minraising back with AK for all we know, a minraise does not mean fold, that would be awful... to avoid all of this i say push in the first place, and dont make the hand more complicated than it needs to be by raising less than all in, the idea of minraising with 22k at 1500/3000 with antes, and folding is just absurd.
    465 
  23. BrooDogg BrooDogg is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 4:18pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    AGREED! ^^
     
  24. sp227 sp227 is offline

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    Jun 4th, 2007 (6/4/2007 4:56pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    Glad I didn't misclick the minraise button on my live monitor.
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