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calling shoves with mid pairs

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  1. SkilzNDrilz SkilzNDrilz is offline

    United Kingdom

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    Joined: May 09

    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 11:07am)

    I have found myself in quite a few spots recently where i have raised pre w/ mid pairs and ppl are makin that obv AK/AQ 20bb shove....

    i personally have been snappin off and been right every time, but 9/10 im losin the flips...

    now i know in the long run i should be a marginal fav if i manage to be right every time, but would you just fold and wait for a better spot? assuming ur call cripples u if u lose ofcourse...

    idk might be a little nitty but it makes a fair difference on ur variance if ur callin 100% here
    424 
  2. gamble153 gamble153 is offline

    Jupiter, FL
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 11:18am) in reply to SkilzNDrilz

    i cant say you can open fold to many time with just 20bb, I take the shot to get some chips.
  3. SkilzNDrilz SkilzNDrilz is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 11:23am) in reply to gamble153

    wel obv if someone shoves 20bb and a call cripples u, u have say, 30 bb.

    just wanted to know what the regs think about foldin pairs when u know ur racin, to wait for a better spot thats all
    424 
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  4. gamble153 gamble153 is offline

    Jupiter, FL
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 11:35am) in reply to SkilzNDrilz

     
    Originally Posted by SkilzNDrilz View Post

    wel obv if someone shoves 20bb and a call cripples u, u have say, 30 bb.

    just wanted to know what the regs think about foldin pairs when u know ur racin, to wait for a better spot thats all

    guess I dont qualify yet, just saying the deeper the stacks than waiting for a better spot is key but that is away from your question completly.
  5. Projekt420 Projekt420 is offline

    Westminster, CO
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 11:42am) in reply to gamble153

    If you're losing 9/10 "flips" obviously you aren't flipping very often. You HAVE to be running into over-pairs if you're snapping off with 88> every time. Sometimes playing 88> is inevitable, like when you have a 10bb > stack butI guarantee you that snapping off with 88> every time is unprofitable no matter what stakes you're playing at.
  6. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

    Manhattan, KS
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 11:59am) in reply to Projekt420

    Call off with middle/upper pairs...are you saying ur calling off with 22 just cuz it's an "obv AQ/Ak?" How is anything ever obvious when someone jams <20bbs? Calling and losing a flip with 22 is a lot different than calling and losing with 66-99...at least with those if he's reshove bluffing with a4/a5, 56, etc ur crushing part of the range.
  7. iSweatMoney iSweatMoney is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 1:27pm) in reply to bef99hwk

    it depends on the position the shover is in. If it's an early position shove from a guy with an M of just over 5, then 88 would be my calling cutoff from the big blind, assuming there are antes. You will run into 44-77 enough to balance out the times you run into 99-JJ or QQ. Most people won't just shove with AA or KK even though they should in this spot. But anyways, the odds are he has high unpaired cards and you have good odds to call if there are antes.
  8. iSweatMoney iSweatMoney is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 1:29pm) in reply to iSweatMoney

    my bad, this was reshoves not open shoves. You are usually going to have odds to call if you have a pair, so i would usually call...people 3bet light a lot these days and a pair pre is decent hand. It still depends heavily on position though. If I raised 22 UTG and get re-popped, I'd be concerned...
  9. Adam013085 Adam013085 is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:57pm) in reply to iSweatMoney

    I cant win a flip to hardly save my life late. No way in hell mine is 50% and thats just including flips. not including when I am dominated or am dominating my opponenet.... 99 vs ak i loost 7 out of 10 and I can find the documentation if you would want to
  10. jshark4 jshark4 is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 11:46pm) in reply to SkilzNDrilz

    when u say mid pairs im assuming u mean like 55-99. with that said, u should b wondering what to do when the guy shoves. this is something u should decide b4 u even raise. If u plan on r/f to to a guy with 20bbs, who r u planning on calling? cause if ur r/f to every1, y bluff with a pair pre?
    2
  11. Thetank72 Thetank72 is offline

    Kansas City, MO
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    Nov 6th, 2009 (11/6/2009 12:05am) in reply to Adam013085

    and 10 is such a BIG sample size, your a whole 0.63 Standard Dev. away from normal.
     1
  12. cbo smooth cbo smooth is offline

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    Nov 6th, 2009 (11/6/2009 12:10am) in reply to SkilzNDrilz

     
    Originally Posted by SkilzNDrilz View Post

    I have found myself in quite a few spots recently where i have raised pre w/ mid pairs and ppl are makin that obv AK/AQ 20bb shove....

    i personally have been snappin off and been right every time, but 9/10 im losin the flips...

    now i know in the long run i should be a marginal fav if i manage to be right every time, but would you just fold and wait for a better spot? assuming ur call cripples u if u lose ofcourse...

    idk might be a little nitty but it makes a fair difference on ur variance if ur callin 100% here

    see now this is the type of questions i want to see on this board( which you dont see much anymore). I joined PXFactor and literally within two weeks i saw my results jump but i found myself snap calling EVERYTIME in sb/bb with Ax against a shove and worked for a while but seemed to fk me over time. FWIW ive only won a few tourneys and when i look back at my HH it seemed the difference was that i didnt (always) go with the (right play ) meaning call a shove when you know ur ahead a tiny margin (when you know theres better spots). Other night I lost a giant pot that put me at 11bb's and obv i thought shove next couple hands or so, but i didnt saying to myself, "lets see if an oppurtunity comes" long story short, i ended up winning the tourney just by not shoving A2 UTG+2ish even though i knew was right. I waited for blind situations when button shoved and i had K10ish and took advantage of that. guess what im sayin is , the more i learned i noticed the more i followed TOO closely when to shove, I took it overboard and when i look at my wins, they were always because of more patience. mtt's aint sng's shovin A2 UTG with 10bb's aint always correct. just my 0.02,
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