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calling situation

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  1. pocketlint pocketlint is offline

    Chino Hills, CA
    United States

    Posts: 15
    Joined: Mar 05

    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 2:04am)

    I heard an interview with nsxt2 and he said that he tries to never call. he will try to raise reraise fold or sit out before he will call. I have been doing this and i definately like it. do others think that way or do you think there are hands like small pp or ax suited hands that are better to just call with?
  2. Sooted57 Sooted57 is offline

    Lincoln, NE
    United States

    Posts: 1,338
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    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 3:00am) in reply to pocketlint

    This philosophy of raising and re-raising to determine your stance in a hand (and never calling) is one that requires highly developed skills in the game, and a willingness to give up lots of chips (when you know you're beat) knowing that you can get your chips back by outplaying your opponents.

    Thinking you can get away with never calling is a very optimistic way to approach the game... but it's not very realistic.

    Say you flop a monster draw like an open ended straight flush draw. You're heads up and your opponent bets into you on the button. You're not really sure what he has but you suspect a set or maybe an overpair. If you raise and he goes allin are you willing to call all of your chips on this monster draw? Probably not, even though you know you're a favorite. Instead of just calling and getting a relatively cheap card, you raised (which is what your opponent wanted you to do) and now you almost no choice but to lay it down.

    Think very hard before you raise your draws. Give your opponents a slim range of hands based on their actions. If any of these hands correlate with the board and your flop raise could result in them coming over the top... don't do it.

    NH GG GL

    Sooted57
  3. RandomMan RandomMan is offline

    NY
    United States

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    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 3:25am) in reply to Sooted57

    Fantastic advice. Well-written, to the point, and clear. People can love the ranked players all they want, but it's the middle man that makes this site what it is.
  4. Adam Adam is offline Emperor

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 12,629
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    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 3:49am) in reply to pocketlint

    This is Todd's strategy, and I think it's an excellent one for an intermediate player, as well as any number of expert players. Being aggressive in every pot you get involved in enables you a shot to win the hand without ever showing down your cards. It also puts you in position to get better reads on your opponents---if you're against tight aggressive opponents, many of them will let you know quickly when you need to step away if you come in with a nice raise first. Betting just gives you a lot more easy information.

    That said, I don't always play like this. I think adapting to your table is an important part of poker (and forcing the table to try and adapt to you). There are some times when I'm just going to change my game up and limp into some pots, rather than raising. Sometimes I will have raised the last 10 times i'd entered a hand, and then i'll start limping with marginal hands, just to throw off my opponents. And if they raise when i have these marginal hands, I'll fold, and maybe they'll start to think I'm only raising with big hands and only limping with small hands. Or sometimes, opponents get suspicious as soon as you change what you're doing, so when I limp, maybe they'll put me on a monster and be forced to play carefully.

    Some strategies, particularly the one I'm trying to mold as my own, are dependent a lot of the time on not letting the table know why you're doing what you're doing, and sometimes that means limping into some pots to confuse your opponents.

    In a more basic situation, perhaps you would want to limp at a loose passive table in early position with a hand like T T or AK. I mean the kind of table where regardless of what you raise, a bunch of people are going to call with crappy cards. Maybe it's just smarter to get into these pots cheap when you have to play them out of position, so that you don't lose a lot of money when they don't work out, which is a lot of the time.

    I think it's best to keep an open mind about all of these things. I'd say for the MOST part, what Todd says is true---in most situations, you should be raising when you come into pots. But when you become the kind of player who senses when (in a basic setting) you can lower your variance for the hand by limping, or (in a more advanced setting) you can really confuse or throw off your opponents by slowing down, I think then you've really taken a step towards mastering the game.
     
  5. pocketlint pocketlint is offline

    Chino Hills, CA
    United States

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    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 4:35am) in reply to Adam

    great answer adam, i like this raise or fold strategy because it leaves you with only 1 or 2 other players seeing the flop and it makes it much easier to steal the pot. This method is also good because when you limp your allowing 5 or more sometimes to see the flop and your risking letting people catch with junk hands.
    Thread Starter
  6. Tsupa Tsupa is offline

    Mustang, OK
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    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 10:07am) in reply to pocketlint

    This thread deserves a bump. Really good information, thanks for sharing!
  7. supermoves supermoves is offline invented poker

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    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 10:19am) in reply to Tsupa

    just curious what people think about this...one of my biggest weapons is limping from the SB when it is folded around to me..I limp with AA, I limp with 56, I find this does two things, it gets me action when I have big hands (if someone hits top pair on the flop, they NEVER put me on AA or KK, but also, once Ive done it a few times, It keeps the BB from raising when I want to see a cheap flop with 6-7 suited...it also allows me to see cheap flops with any 2 cards...
    1
  8. Crawfdad Crawfdad is offline

    Mattoon, IL
    United States

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    Aug 29th, 2005 (8/29/2005 11:00am) in reply to supermoves

    I agree with Adam accessment. The answer to most poker questions is that it DEPENDS on many variables. Even more so against more sophisticated players. Todd is just laying out a basic strategy that he uses most of the time. A philoshopy that keeps him playing hands that he will only raise with. That is not to say he never limps or calls a pot. Of course he does when the situation is right.

    I also like the strategy that supermoves talks of limping in the SB. But, of course again it depends on the type of player that you are playing against in the BB. If you think a player will defend then why not raise with AA or premium hands. Also, you should raise with weak holdings head up in the SB to mix it up sometimes.
     
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