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Can I Fold Kings Here?

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  1. Mr. Personality Mr. Personality is offline

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 13
    Joined: Mar 06

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 9:21am)

    After the reraise all in I had to put him on aces and not just a steal since we were the top two stacks at the table, but I've had "never fold kings" drilled into me for so long that I just couldn't do it. Good play and bad luck or could you go with instinct and leave yourself alive?

    pokerstars Game #4515220052: Tournament #22470801, Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2006/04/04 - 00:36:29 (ET)
    Table '22470801 13' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: kickball (29388 in chips)
    Seat 2: park10 (21555 in chips)
    Seat 3: Talon27 (6564 in chips)
    Seat 4: MrPrsonality (23555 in chips)
    Seat 5: IceIceWine (16724 in chips)
    Seat 9: utatch (18773 in chips)
    kickball: posts the ante 50
    park10: posts the ante 50
    Talon27: posts the ante 50
    MrPrsonality: posts the ante 50
    IceIceWine: posts the ante 50
    utatch: posts the ante 50
    Talon27: posts small blind 400
    MrPrsonality: posts big blind 800
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to MrPrsonality [Kd Kh]
    IceIceWine: folds
    utatch: folds
    kickball: raises 1600 to 2400
    park10: folds
    Talon27: folds
    MrPrsonality: raises 6400 to 8800
    kickball: raises 20538 to 29338 and is all-in
    MrPrsonality: calls 14705 and is all-in
    *** FLOP *** [4h 5d 8h]
    MrPrsonality said, "wow"
    park10 said, "nhs"
    *** TURN *** [4h 5d 8h] [6h]
    *** RIVER *** [4h 5d 8h 6h] [Qh]
    kickball said, "gg"
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    MrPrsonality: shows [Kd Kh] (a flush, King high)
    kickball: shows [As Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
    utatch said, "nh bad luck man"
    kickball collected 47710 from pot
    utatch said, "gg"
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 47710 | Rake 0
    Board [4h 5d 8h 6h Qh]
    Seat 1: kickball showed [As Ah] and won (47710) with a flush, Ace high
    Seat 2: park10 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: Talon27 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: MrPrsonality (big blind) showed [Kd Kh] and lost with a flush, King high
    Seat 5: IceIceWine folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: utatch folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. GB2005 GB2005 is offline

    Posts: 1,947
    Joined: Oct 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 9:25am) in reply to Mr. Personality

    no way...impossible and you would be dumb too in my opinion

    anything ive ever folded kings preflop to aces (3 times in my life) its always been as a result of some bet/raise which is common for aa.

    6 handed no way!

    He standard raised 3x....and pushed back over ur reraise big...
     1
  3. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 2:49pm) in reply to Mr. Personality

    In this spot, you must be at least 90% sure he has exactly AA to fold. Unless you have played this opponent many many many times, and know this is only a play made w AA by him, you did the right thing. Good call, bad result.
  4. LesW LesW is offline

    Boston, MA
    United States

    Posts: 1,032
    Joined: Feb 06

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 3:00pm) in reply to Jennifear

    My thoughts exactly.

    Also You can still crack them with KK so if you have the guy well covered you may want to risk it anyways.

    ..Les
  5. NEMO701 NEMO701 is offline

    Silver Spring, MD
    United States

    Posts: 603
    Joined: Nov 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 3:01pm) in reply to Mr. Personality

    I would have taken a deep breath of the SITUATION........realized that my KK coulda got cracked by whatever not to mention AA and then i woulda been LOOKING for the smartest time to double up POSTFLOP depending on how many were left etc yada........ so yeah i woulda tossed em..
  6. mahgnislaw mahgnislaw is offline

    Posts: 1,815
    Joined: May 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 3:39pm) in reply to NEMO701

    Harrington on holdem volume 1 pg 240 and 241 good luck
  7. rock28 rock28 is offline

    PA
    United States

    Posts: 670
    Joined: Feb 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 3:42pm) in reply to Mr. Personality

    Too bad you were sooooot dominated.
  8. LetsHustle LetsHustle is offline

    Monmouth Junction, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 163
    Joined: Apr 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 3:54pm) in reply to Mr. Personality

    get your reading skills up. you gotta know when to lay them down.
  9. grasshopper22 grasshopper22 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 698
    Joined: Feb 06

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 4:28pm) in reply to LetsHustle

    yeah i think it was the standard kings vs aces raise, re-raise, all-in. Being the chip leader at the table too against second chip leader was a very good tip-off that he wasn't just trying to push you off the hand with AK, AQ or a smaller pair.
  10. Ripptyde Ripptyde is offline

    Sacramento, CA
    United States

    Posts: 454
    Joined: Oct 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 4:32pm) in reply to grasshopper22

    if you ever fold KK again pre-flop

    I will kill you
  11. phidelt799 phidelt799 is offline

    Burnsville, MN
    United States

    Posts: 301
    Joined: Jun 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 4:34pm) in reply to Mr. Personality

    I don't think you can get away from them unless you are in a satellite situation or an extreme MTT situation. Just bad timing.

    phidelt799
  12. rusostreet rusostreet is offline

    Arvada, CO
    United States

    Posts: 2,202
    Joined: Mar 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 5:04pm) in reply to phidelt799

    I concur w phi about the situations, but I think that I could lay KK in that spot. I mean, Ive done the same thing as you but, you can wait for a better time. Hes totally reppin' AA, and in my opinion I just dont think its worth calling there. I know its a tough fold but, thats the difference between good players and great ones. I still go against my gut sometimes but, as long as you don't make the same mistakes over and over, you will do great. gl.
     11
  13. Mr. Personality Mr. Personality is offline

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 13
    Joined: Mar 06

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 8:38pm) in reply to Mr. Personality

    Second hand in a Stars tourney tonight ... within 3 hands I had kings vs aces twice, what are the odds?

    pokerstars Game #4522649500: Tournament #22379904, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2006/04/04 - 20:31:05 (ET)
    Table '22379904 25' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: jfballa34 (1500 in chips)
    Seat 2: Funtony (1400 in chips)
    Seat 3: Dr. McStinky (1480 in chips)
    Seat 4: hortys2 (1500 in chips)
    Seat 5: dblchocolate (1620 in chips)
    Seat 6: low177 (1500 in chips)
    Seat 7: u2bama (1500 in chips)
    Seat 8: Chaulk (1500 in chips)
    Seat 9: MrPrsonality (1500 in chips)
    Dr. McStinky: posts small blind 10
    hortys2: posts big blind 20
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to MrPrsonality [Kd Kh]
    dblchocolate: folds
    low177: folds
    u2bama: raises 100 to 120
    Chaulk: folds
    MrPrsonality: raises 180 to 300
    jfballa34: folds
    Funtony: folds
    Dr. McStinky: folds
    hortys2: raises 500 to 800
    u2bama: folds
    MrPrsonality: raises 700 to 1500 and is all-in
    hortys2: calls 700 and is all-in
    *** FLOP *** [2h 4h 4d]
    *** TURN *** [2h 4h 4d] [Ts]
    *** RIVER *** [2h 4h 4d Ts] [8h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    hortys2: shows [Ac Ah] (two pair, Aces and Fours)
    MrPrsonality: shows [Kd Kh] (two pair, Kings and Fours)
    MrPrsonality said, "this same exact thing happened to me last night"
    Chaulk said, "gg"
    hortys2 collected 3130 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 3130 | Rake 0
    Board [2h 4h 4d Ts 8h]
    Seat 1: jfballa34 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Funtony (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: Dr. McStinky (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: hortys2 (big blind) showed [Ac Ah] and won (3130) with two pair, Aces and Fours
    Seat 5: dblchocolate folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: low177 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: u2bama folded before Flop
    Seat 8: Chaulk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: MrPrsonality showed [Kd Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Fours
    Thread Starter
  14. snugglez88 snugglez88 is offline

    Marblehead, MA
    United States

    Posts: 365
    Joined: Aug 05

    Apr 4th, 2006 (4/4/2006 9:43pm) in reply to Mr. Personality

    you cannot lay down your hand in the first situation mentioned.... you had a lot of chips committed, even if he has A's 50% of the time, which I doubt is even the case. This situation though is quite a bit different. You had a 6x bet, your raise and someone elses re-raise for a good chip amount but not your stack. Earlier someone said "this is not indicative of standard ace betting" or something to that effect... THIS IS! Now I'm not saying you should have laid it down, but in this situation I'd be inclined to. What hands do you put him on here that he'd bet in that way? I move in with Q's/AK there... or just call. Here I think the likelihood that this guy has A's is much higher and I'd probably lay K's down in this spot.

    but then you have to consider that it is the second hand of the tournament and you have no read on these guys... it's tough.
     
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