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Can i fold KK here???

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  1. 2_Gearzzz 2_Gearzzz is offline

    SC
    United States

    Posts: 58
    Joined: Nov 08

    Jul 28th, 2009 (7/28/2009 2:11am)

    No reads on villain, had too many tables open.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #13664037424: Table Camino Del Santo - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:03:03 ET - 2009/07/28
    Seat 1: 2_Gearzzz ($31.79)
    Seat 2: jpcullen ($21.77)
    Seat 3: omgRyanLeaf ($27.44)
    Seat 4: mystic24 ($20.67)
    Seat 5: Quickfox7 ($45.58)
    Seat 6: Kenchik ($4.65)
    Seat 7: spyder2k4 ($25)
    Seat 8: koshka7 ($26.53)
    Seat 9: engelchef ($22.63)
    spyder2k4 posts the small blind of $0.10
    koshka7 posts the big blind of $0.25
    The button is in seat #6
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to 2_Gearzzz [Kc Ks]
    engelchef folds
    2_Gearzzz raises to $0.75
    jpcullen folds
    omgRyanLeaf raises to $2.25
    mystic24 folds
    Quickfox7 folds
    Kenchik folds
    spyder2k4 folds
    spyder2k4 adds $0.10
    koshka7 folds
    2_Gearzzz calls $1.50
    *** FLOP *** [4s Qd 3h]
    2_Gearzzz checks
    omgRyanLeaf bets $4
    2_Gearzzz calls $4
    *** TURN *** [4s Qd 3h] [5c]
    2_Gearzzz checks
    omgRyanLeaf bets $9
    2_Gearzzz has 15 seconds left to act
    2_Gearzzz has requested TIME
  2. miami_jesse miami_jesse is offline

    Seoul
    Korea, Republic of

    Posts: 321
    Joined: Feb 05

    Jul 28th, 2009 (7/28/2009 3:08am) in reply to 2_Gearzzz

    You played this very poorly (please don't take this as an insult).

    I don't know why you wouldn't raise keep raising pre-flop...if he has Aces, so be it, but unless I'm a very shortstacked on the bubble, I wanna get all my $ in with KK every time. On the flop, also you have simply called, he may be bluffing an AK, and repeating himself on the turn...by simply calling your are giving him an extra chance to get an A if this is the case, and missing $ on the river if you check into him again and he decides not to bet. Why would you call on the flop, have a dead card hit on the turn, and not call? Where you only hoping for a K on the turn?

    Since you made this post, I'm guessing you called him and he beat you with aces, but that's going to happen occasionally. Would have happened anyway if you had tried to get all your $ in preflop.

    So, IMO, you should have reraised pre-flop, and if he has AA, say to yourself that it will be a while till this happens again.
  3. 2_Gearzzz 2_Gearzzz is offline

    SC
    United States

    Posts: 58
    Joined: Nov 08

    Jul 28th, 2009 (7/28/2009 3:20am) in reply to miami_jesse

    Yes, i know i played this poorly, thats why i decided to post it.

    If this was a tourny, 99% i 4-bet him and try and get it in. But at these stakes, i dont often see too many 3-bets without quality starting hands.

    So i decided to play it slow because i felt i could outplay him postflop.

    The only thing that confuses me is the bet on the turn, i can only see him making that bet with AA or QQ, i see him checkin the turn with 1010 JJ and AK. So i felt the only hand i really beat was AQ.

    and i folded... Thanks for the advice. i appreciate it.
    Thread Starter
  4. dannyg1989 dannyg1989 is offline

    Bingley
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 371
    Joined: Jul 08

    Jul 28th, 2009 (7/28/2009 8:59am) in reply to 2_Gearzzz

    you could have 4bet pf or re-raised on the flop...smells of AQ to me, JJ/AK is possible too, 10s not sure if they would 3-bet pre.

    and you say you only see 3bets with quality hands? ive seen 3bets with Q4o and random hands like that, i say shove over the top. If he has AA then ok re-load and try again its not gonna happen that often but as i said i think he has AQ or a double barrel-bluff here with AK.

    im guessin you dont run PT or HEM or anythin like that for stats at all? might be worth the investment if you run into this situation often.

    just my opinion, hope it helps :)
  5. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

    Olathe, KS
    United States

    Posts: 761
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jul 28th, 2009 (7/28/2009 2:39pm) in reply to 2_Gearzzz

    Note: I'm terrible at cash games.

    In a tourney, I'm 4 betting this all day. However, I can see why you might just call in a cash game. (I'm probably 4betting this in cash because I lack the ability to transition to cash).

    Given your preflop call, I think we have to check/raise the flop to see where we are at. I think AA or QQ are just going to call to see if you get yourself into trouble on turn or river, but I feel like AQ is going to spazz out and make a big 4bet. On the flop, I think the only cards you should worry about are QQQ and AA, as he's never making that preflop raise w/33 or 44.

    Given that you just called the flop bet, his lead on the turn is quite odd. I think if I'm playing QQQ or AA like that, I'm going to make my bet more in the $6-8 range, with AQ on a rainbow board, I'm not too worried about an overcard, so I'd think the $9 is a bit too big.

    The more I think about this, the more I think this guy has JJ a bunch of the time (that $9 bet looks like it wants a fold). I don't fold here, but I don't play cash, so what do I know.
  6. NetFan44 NetFan44 is offline

    New York City, NY
    United States

    Posts: 4,344
    Joined: Jun 06

    Jul 28th, 2009 (7/28/2009 5:13pm) in reply to 2_Gearzzz

    raise turn and get it in against a 3 bet range you have destroyed.

    preflop is standard, let him bet flop/turn with worse, where if you 4bet pre, you're gonna fold out a ton of hands that you have crushed.
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