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Cash Games - Value Betting the River

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  1. gtpoker828 gtpoker828 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 58
    Joined: Dec 05

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:44pm)

    Is this an obvious checking situation, an obvious betting situation or neither?

    Full Tilt Poker Game #1205260015: Table Lake Mead - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:31:08 ET - 2006/11/06
    Seat 1: Spimfter ($236.80)
    <span>Seat 2: Chi-Devil ($367.40)</span>
    Seat 3: scooter2003 ($198)
    Seat 4: sk1hr345 ($189)
    Seat 5: SometimesNJ ($114.20)
    <span>Seat 6: gtpoker828 ($181)</span>
    Seat 7: Fishy Bait ($185.30)
    Seat 8: Brad_TheMan ($203.45)
    Seat 9: FingerFox ($340)
    Fishy Bait posts the small blind of $1
    Brad_TheMan posts the big blind of $2
    The button is in seat #6
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    <span>Dealt to gtpoker828 [7s As]</span>
    FingerFox calls $2
    Spimfter folds
    Chi-Devil calls $2
    scooter2003 folds
    sk1hr345 raises to $8
    SometimesNJ folds
    gtpoker828 calls $8
    Fishy Bait folds
    Brad_TheMan folds
    FingerFox calls $6
    Chi-Devil calls $6
    <span>*** FLOP *** [Kd 7d Ah]</span>
    FingerFox checks
    Chi-Devil checks
    sk1hr345 checks
    <span>gtpoker828 bets $20</span>
    FingerFox folds
    FingerFox stands up
    <span>Chi-Devil calls $20</span>
    sk1hr345 folds
    *** TURN *** [Kd 7d Ah] [8h]
    Chi-Devil checks
    dachamp31 adds $80
    <span>gtpoker828 bets $80</span>
    <span>Chi-Devil calls $80</span>
    <span>*** RIVER *** [Kd 7d Ah 8h] [2s]</span>
    Chi-Devil checks
    gtpoker828 checks
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    gtpoker828 shows [7s As] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
    Chi-Devil mucks
    gtpoker828 wins the pot ($232) with two pair, Aces and Sevens
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $235 | Rake $3
    Board: [Kd 7d Ah 8h 2s]
    Seat 1: Spimfter didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 2: Chi-Devil mucked [Ad Jh] - a pair of Aces
    Seat 3: scooter2003 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 4: sk1hr345 folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: SometimesNJ didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 6: gtpoker828 (button) showed [7s As] and won ($232) with two pair, Aces and Sevens
    Seat 7: Fishy Bait (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: Brad_TheMan (big blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 9: FingerFox folded on the Flop

    After flat-call flat-call... I almost had to put Chi on a diamond draw. I figured the only way I was getting called was if I was beat. I'm looking for insight on the river round in particular. I feel like I played the rest of the hand well.

    ~gtpoker
  2. YoungStunna89 YoungStunna89 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 497
    Joined: Oct 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:48pm) in reply to gtpoker828

    omfg value bet that pls, not even close
  3. Leet8s Leet8s is offline usausausausausa

    New York City, NY
    United States

    Posts: 8,036
    Joined: Aug 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:51pm) in reply to YoungStunna89

    rofl all in...
     
  4. Askesis_ Askesis_ is offline

    Tampa, FL
    United States

    Posts: 3,066
    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:54pm) in reply to gtpoker828

    Obvious folding situation. Oh, you aren't talking about preflop...

    In my mind, it's a value bet situation. Here's what beats you, that he might actually have: A8, 77. Both of those would have almost certainly raised you by the river with the double flush draw out there.

    AK would have PROBABLY reraised pre, same with AA or KK. I bet about half of the pot and hope that a single ace calls, or someone who was chasing a flush draw and hit a lower two pair or something
     
  5. thorladen thorladen is offline

    NY
    United States

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    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:54pm) in reply to Leet8s

    If you were out of position the check is ok sometimes to induce a bluff(dont oversuse it) here you just cant be beaten by any hand unless my dog zeke is your opponent. At a very hilevel you could be beat by a clever dude but not at this level you have to bet this river.

    Thor
     
  6. chicoflash chicoflash is offline

    Fayetteville, AR
    United States

    Posts: 200
    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:56pm) in reply to YoungStunna89

    Value bet please! A few things, one is many many people will call you with worse hands here that dont even include an ace, two is most sets are going to try and get their money in on the turn on a very dangerous board like that, in fact many are going to raise you on the flop if they think you have an ace, and three, if this person really does have a-k, they are reraising you sooner than later because of the diamonds. and lastly, i suck so just forget i said all of that :)
    -chicoflash
  7. rgouge rgouge is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 275
    Joined: Mar 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:56pm) in reply to gtpoker828

    It's really read dependant. But I'd be with you. After flat-call twice, I'd have to think he had a set here or missed the diamond draw. But some people are bad enough to call you all the way down with A-x.

    Ask the harrington questions "Will a hand thats beating me lay down if I bet?" and "Will a hand that I'm beating call my bet?" If there are more hands likely that you're beating vs more hands that are beating you, you should tend to bet.
  8. gtpoker828 gtpoker828 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 58
    Joined: Dec 05

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 4:56pm) in reply to Askesis_

    hah... I understand the preflop call was loose to say the least... but I'll ignore that for now.

    I guess I just wasn't sure how likely it was for a single ace to call me on the river.

    Thanks for the advice

    ~gtpoker
    Thread Starter
  9. Askesis_ Askesis_ is offline

    Tampa, FL
    United States

    Posts: 3,066
    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 5:05pm) in reply to rgouge

    I'm not sure i agree with you that he might have a set. It's possible, of course, but I don't think it's likely. Flat calling the flop that has a flush draw in a seven-way pot? Or flat calling a turn with a double flush draw in a four-way pot (Both times to end the action and move to the next street....so no chance that he wants someone to raise).

    I think the number of times someone will call you with AQ, AJ, TT outweighs the number of times someone has 77 (the other possible pairs that make a set are folding the flop, and AA and KK are certainly reraising pre)
     
  10. sc000t sc000t is offline

    MI
    United States

    Posts: 481
    Joined: Oct 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 5:05pm) in reply to gtpoker828

    Since you are in position I think its an obvious value betting situation. Depending on your read on the hand should come into affect at the river since he checked it to you on flop/turn and river. If you put him on a busted flush draw, you'll need to make him come over the top of you to gain anymore value (which is easier said than done). If you've been playing with him awhile and have a solid read, maybe another bet of $80 or even a little less may get him to sense weakness and try to c/r the river, but not very likely at this level. What I would do here is value bet and hope he had a hand like he did (AJ) or maybe even throw out a large pot size bet and make it look like a bluff (like you missed a big draw like Qd Jd) and maybe get a larger calling range from guys holding weaker aces or maybe even a king looking to make a great call. Either way I think you def missed a bet on river.
  11. speareman speareman is offline

    Mount Laurel, NJ
    United States

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    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 5:20pm) in reply to rgouge

    Fold preflop, your just going get yourself in trouble more often than not. Thorladen analysis is best I think. Its hard to tell at that level where people are alot of the time cause they flat call so much more often than higher stakes, but I gotta think your ahead the majority of the time here, bet bet bet
  12. notashark notashark is offline

    Phuket
    Thailand

    Posts: 1,188
    Joined: Sep 06

    Nov 6th, 2006 (11/6/2006 5:36pm) in reply to sc000t

    but it was soooooooooooted
     1
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