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Cold 4 betting AKo HH

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  1. willbec1 willbec1 is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 7:43pm)

    Is this a fold against a complete random?

    pokerstars Game #56151195162: Tournament #403010492, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (25/50) - 2011/01/18 14:34:18 ET
    Table '403010492 202' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: ArtemkaMJ (6125 in chips)
    Seat 2: reevo777 (3295 in chips)
    Seat 3: shabbaranks1 (4012 in chips)
    Seat 4: olewooooo (2445 in chips)
    Seat 5: PQnia (2600 in chips)
    Seat 6: Willbec1 (4695 in chips)
    Seat 7: SergiiB (3620 in chips)
    Seat 8: Sunrise1968 (1830 in chips)
    Seat 9: gdr89 (4098 in chips)
    Willbec1: posts small blind 25
    SergiiB: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Willbec1 [Ac Kd]
    Sunrise1968: calls 50
    gdr89: calls 50
    ArtemkaMJ: folds
    reevo777: raises 50 to 100
    shabbaranks1: folds
    olewooooo: raises 350 to 450
    PQnia: folds
    Willbec1: ???
     
  2. phyzer23 phyzer23 is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 7:45pm) in reply to willbec1

    folding.....still 4 ppl to act behind u and ur OOP for the whole hand.....also jamming 90bbs or so with slick would be silly
    Edited By: phyzer23 Jan 18th, 2011 at 07:46 PM
     
  3. acecatcher26 acecatcher26 is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 7:47pm) in reply to willbec1

    Call me a nit but I snap fold here, unless you have some serious reads
  4. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 7:48pm) in reply to acecatcher26

    Awkward spot, but I'm not folding here against a random. This might be a flat call, reevaluate the flop situation. I see these raises with AQ and JJ, it isn't just top 3 hands showing up here.
  5. ImAmOnStEr ImAmOnStEr is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 8:06pm) in reply to lordxixor101

    im not snap doing anything. i probably tank 4bet or call
  6. flipxpelon562 flipxpelon562 is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 9:51pm) in reply to acecatcher26

     
    Originally Posted by acecatcher26 View Post

    Call me a nit but I snap fold here, unless you have some serious reads


    So when the guy opens with 84 and the other guy is 3 betting with 75 than the flop comes kka and you folded?I would def flat at the very minimum...
  7. northkato northkato is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 9:54pm) in reply to flipxpelon562

    small 4bet looks super strong, hopefully fold out pairs, call all in and cry about it if you must.
  8. dlove57 dlove57 is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 9:55pm) in reply to flipxpelon562

    I think flatting is best option reevaluating post flop......folding is not terrible but I don't feel the best option......putting in another raise totally unnecessary imo
  9. SlayNL SlayNL is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 9:58pm) in reply to dlove57

     
    Originally Posted by dlove57 View Post

    I think flatting is best option reevaluating post flop......folding is not terrible but I don't feel the best option......putting in another raise totally unnecessary imo

    Not this
  10. FenwayKing FenwayKing is offline The Well: FenwayKing

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 9:58pm) in reply to SlayNL

    fold; call is easily the worst option tho
    247 1
  11. apresthus apresthus is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 10:28pm) in reply to FenwayKing

    foldaments
  12. Got All Day Got All Day is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 10:46pm) in reply to apresthus

    Fold? Not a chance. Raise just over 2x and then re evaluate if he shoves. Not being aggressive with ak in position does not win you tournaments. I would even call a shove half the time just cause i would expect to see anything from 1010 and aq up but i would need to be sitting there to get a feel for players at table. If you flat call you gain no information.
  13. dalix88 dalix88 is offline

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    Jan 18th, 2011 (1/18/2011 11:48pm) in reply to Got All Day

    Flatting is horrible. If the 3bettor is solid then I like a fold here; if he is spewy then 1425/call. Readless I'd probs just fold.
    935 
  14. flipxpelon562 flipxpelon562 is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 12:08am) in reply to dalix88

     
    Originally Posted by dalix88 View Post

    Flatting is horrible. If the 3bettor is solid then I like a fold here; if he is spewy then 1425/call. Readless I'd probs just fold.

    4bet>4bet shove>flat>fold...I am not sure how people are advocating folding AK pre?....
  15. mcandrews3rd mcandrews3rd is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 12:16am) in reply to dalix88

     
    Originally Posted by dalix88 View Post

    Flatting is horrible. If the 3bettor is solid then I like a fold here; if he is spewy then 1425/call. Readless I'd probs just fold.

    this
    183 1
  16. shallowcal shallowcal is online now

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 12:23am) in reply to mcandrews3rd

    4 bet/call... folding ak might be a bit nitty for an $11
  17. TrueMetalMan TrueMetalMan is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 12:35am) in reply to shallowcal

    I am never folding here.... I 4b and call a shove. flatting is NEVER a possibility... your just call folding the flop if you hit nothing and are oop? Thats just way to stupid. either 4b fold to shove 4b call shove 4b and move from there if he flats. Or fold... I never find a fold spot here it just ain't happening in a 11 mtt.
  18. hussainsajwani hussainsajwani is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 12:51am) in reply to TrueMetalMan

    ask the two players what they have in the chatbox, then re-evaluate.
     
  19. ImAmOnStEr ImAmOnStEr is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 1:43am) in reply to hussainsajwani

    there are spots were calling is horrible like when your shallow post antee
    this is not one of them. you have 90+ bb either 4b or call oop and stack
    off weaker aces on an ace high flop life is good.
  20. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 1:47am) in reply to TrueMetalMan

     
    Originally Posted by TrueMetalMan View Post

    I am never folding here.... I 4b and call a shove. flatting is NEVER a possibility... your just call folding the flop if you hit nothing and are oop? Thats just way to stupid. either 4b fold to shove 4b call shove 4b and move from there if he flats. Or fold... I never find a fold spot here it just ain't happening in a 11 mtt.


    exactly. IN a $11 MTT I'm happy to get this in anytime.
     
  21. matze_widi matze_widi is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 3:11am) in reply to shallowcal

     
    Originally Posted by shallowcal View Post

    4 bet/call... folding ak might be a bit nitty for an $11

    this
     
  22. Seaner23s Seaner23s is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 3:47am) in reply to matze_widi

    I think calling is the worst here, but if you have no read on any of these guys, maybe 4 bet small and fold to a shove...You have plenty of chips so If he 5 bets all in, you can get away from it....But thats just me cause I hate AK never wins for me...:)
  23. mattdb9er mattdb9er is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 4:40am) in reply to Seaner23s

    def not flattin, either 4bet/call or fold is fine imo , with no more info , i may fold tbh, i play nit poker early
     
  24. OuFeRRaT OuFeRRaT is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 5:04pm) in reply to shallowcal

     
    Originally Posted by shallowcal View Post

    4 bet/call... folding ak might be a bit nitty for an $11

    I would always 4bet/call or 4bet all-in directly. You have a very strong hand. Also, there's dead money.

    I was surprised to read that so many people would fold AK here.
    For me the limpers and the min-raise are very weak. I wouldn't be surprised if olewooooo had hands as weak as KQ, AT or 88.

    I am sure I am wrong, because I am a newbie, but can you explain me why I am so wrong?
  25. uga7211 uga7211 is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 5:18pm) in reply to OuFeRRaT

    lmao at this thread.. all these people saying 4bet.. half of them dont even know what it is imo.. let alone the correct sizing in which to bet...rarely see 4bs this early in a low stakes mtt without the OP showing up with top 3% of hand ranges.. that being said.. I'm also fairly confident that half the people play this hand completely wrong 90% of the time.. there are so many different lines you can take in this hand.. all of which are justifiable.. I mean.. its just AK.. then 2nd most overplayed hand in poker besides AQ to people who are thinking at 1st and 2nd levels.. and to those who are just like oh well just get it in its just a 10$ mtt.. :D big picture fellas.. big picture..
    Edited By: uga7211 Jan 19th, 2011 at 05:19 PM
     
  26. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 5:40pm) in reply to uga7211

    doubts Im doing anythin but 4b/call raise to 1500/call jam
  27. eri eri is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 7:06pm) in reply to uga7211

     
    Originally Posted by uga7211 View Post

    lmao at this thread.. all these people saying 4bet.. half of them dont even know what it is imo.. let alone the correct sizing in which to bet...rarely see 4bs this early in a low stakes mtt without the OP showing up with top 3% of hand ranges.. that being said.. I'm also fairly confident that half the people play this hand completely wrong 90% of the time.. there are so many different lines you can take in this hand.. all of which are justifiable.. I mean.. its just AK.. then 2nd most overplayed hand in poker besides AQ to people who are thinking at 1st and 2nd levels.. and to those who are just like oh well just get it in its just a 10$ mtt.. :D big picture fellas.. big picture..

    Way to be an arrogant ass , plz post less
  28. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 8:36pm) in reply to uga7211

     
    Originally Posted by uga7211 View Post

    lmao at this thread.. all these people saying 4bet.. half of them dont even know what it is imo.. let alone the correct sizing in which to bet...rarely see 4bs this early in a low stakes mtt without the OP showing up with top 3% of hand ranges.. that being said.. I'm also fairly confident that half the people play this hand completely wrong 90% of the time.. there are so many different lines you can take in this hand.. all of which are justifiable.. I mean.. its just AK.. then 2nd most overplayed hand in poker besides AQ to people who are thinking at 1st and 2nd levels.. and to those who are just like oh well just get it in its just a 10$ mtt.. :D big picture fellas.. big picture..

    Why even bother posting?
     
  29. pokerscrub1 pokerscrub1 is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 11:05pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    LOL at people saying 4bet/Fold...that seems like clearly the worst option
     
  30. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

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    Jan 19th, 2011 (1/19/2011 11:35pm) in reply to uga7211

     
    Originally Posted by uga7211 View Post

    lmao at this thread.. all these people saying 4bet.. half of them dont even know what it is imo.. let alone the correct sizing in which to bet...rarely see 4bs this early in a low stakes mtt without the OP showing up with top 3% of hand ranges.. that being said.. I'm also fairly confident that half the people play this hand completely wrong 90% of the time.. there are so many different lines you can take in this hand.. all of which are justifiable.. I mean.. its just AK.. then 2nd most overplayed hand in poker besides AQ to people who are thinking at 1st and 2nd levels.. and to those who are just like oh well just get it in its just a 10$ mtt.. :D big picture fellas.. big picture..

    While I think you are right in general, i think you give WAY too much credit to the hands held by the 2 opponents. The point about it *oh being a 10 bucker* isn't about the possible loss of $10.. but a statement in general about the quality of play by most randos in these things.

    Sure lots of people overplay AK, but lots of people will 3 bet fold to the cold 4b here and will jam plenty of hands that we are at worst flipping with. And though I would prefer to take my flips in the endgame, there's enough of a chance to just pick up the pot pre.. or have the guy flat behind and take it with a cbet on most flops... that it's worth it here.

    If we're talking $50+ buyin.. well that is a whole other deal.
     
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