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Is this collusion?

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  1. PokerAK PokerAK is offline

    Posts: 73
    Joined: Feb 09

    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 2:23am)

    The other day when I was playing at a final table where play had gone on for a while and the blinds&antes were reaching insane levels. There was a guy who was seriously shortstacked and had 1BB left and a wild_luckbox who was in the SB. To me the following play made no sense unless he was doing everything he could to help the other guy survive. Usually you'd expect the SB to limp and check it down to give the best chance of eliminating the shortstack as the money increases significantly after each elimination.

    Seat 1: PokerAK (42326 in chips)
    Seat 2: ------------ (31994 in chips)
    Seat 4: ------------ (47660 in chips)
    Seat 5: ------------ (25049 in chips)
    Seat 6: Wild_Luckbox (27834 in chips)
    Seat 7: ------------ (14541 in chips)
    Seat 8: ------------ (75876 in chips)
    Seat 9: Chronic_Shortstack (4720 in chips)
    PokerAK: posts the ante 300
    ------------: posts the ante 300
    ------------: posts the ante 300
    ------------: posts the ante 300
    Wild_Luckbox: posts the ante 300
    ------------: posts the ante 300
    ------------: posts the ante 300
    Chronic_Shortstack: posts the ante 300
    Wild_Luckbox: posts small blind 1500
    ------------: posts big blind 3000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to PokerAK [Qc 5s]
    ----------: folds
    Chronic_Shortstack: raises 1420 to 4420 and is all-in
    PokerAK: folds
    -----------: folds
    -----------: folds
    -----------: folds
    Wild_Luckbox: raises 23114 to 27534 and is all-in
    -----------: folds
    Uncalled bet (23114) returned to Wild_Luckbox
    *** FLOP *** [5d 5h Ks]
    *** TURN *** [5d 5h Ks] [Qs]
    *** RIVER *** [5d 5h Ks Qs] [9c]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Wild_Luckbox: shows [3h 2s] (a pair of Fives)
    Chronic_Shortstack: shows [Jd Kh] (two pair, Kings and Fives)
    Chronic_Shortstack collected 14240 from pot
  2. acecatcher26 acecatcher26 is offline

    AR
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 2:26am) in reply to PokerAK

    Yes.
  3. 27utg 27utg is offline

    Chapel Hill, NC
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 2:28am) in reply to PokerAK

    no
  4. heavyj80 heavyj80 is offline

    West Babylon, NY
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 2:29am) in reply to PokerAK

    lol no
  5. fly44 fly44 is online now

    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 2:29am) in reply to PokerAK

    No its not. SB is getting fairly good pot odds and did not want BB to have a chance at the pot so he shoved.
    521 1
  6. SigmaBetaRho SigmaBetaRho is offline

    Glen Oaks, NY
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 4:09am) in reply to fly44

     
    Originally Posted by fly44 View Post

    No its not. SB is getting fairly good pot odds and did not want BB to have a chance at the pot so he shoved.

    This. Def not collusion.
  7. riverdrowns riverdrowns is offline

    Yuma, AZ
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 4:21am) in reply to SigmaBetaRho

    kinda situation where the play is correct but you look like a retard to people who dont understand
  8. pikappraider78 pikappraider78 is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 4:25am) in reply to fly44

     
    Originally Posted by fly44 View Post

    No its not. SB is getting fairly good pot odds and did not want BB to have a chance at the pot so he shoved.

     
  9. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 5:15am) in reply to PokerAK

    The BB needs to be folding quite a bit for this play to be +EV, but it's definitely possible.
  10. rocketpplayer rocketpplayer is offline

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 11:39am) in reply to Jennifear

    I don't think so
  11. Laois Hammer Laois Hammer is offline

    Port Laoise
    Ireland

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 11:44am) in reply to rocketpplayer

    why did u block the other players names,

    just curious.

    and i don't think it was collusion to be honnest
     
  12. Cashweekly Cashweekly is offline

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 11:58am) in reply to PokerAK

    Level??
  13. 33mikemcg 33mikemcg is offline

    Roseville, CA
    United States

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 12:10pm) in reply to Cashweekly

     
    Originally Posted by Cashweekly View Post

    Level??

    ^^ must be. Definatly std bvb hand.
     
  14. Hecklerz Hecklerz is offline

    Canada

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 12:34pm) in reply to PokerAK

    Not seeing any signs of collusion here.....
  15. boris64 boris64 is offline

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 1:25pm) in reply to Hecklerz

    was this a KO tournament?
  16. Popperhead Popperhead is offline

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 1:35pm) in reply to boris64

    appears to be on the up and up looks like he wanted to take a punt at shorty without going 3way
  17. Run 4 Shelter Run 4 Shelter is offline

    Chandler, AZ
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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 2:44pm) in reply to PokerAK

    The goal is to win the tournament, not knock out a small stack using a similar collusion of soft play with u, giving you a chance to increase your stack by like 20 or so percent...

    Push was what I would do, I don't care about softplaying to get more money when I have my eyes only on one prize and that is 1st. He did the right thing, he lost 4720 chips and doubled the shortstack to 14k, but he also stopped you from gaining 14k chips resulting from his race.

    Personally, odds are once I look at the cards, it wasn't a move I would necessarily make with 23o but if you wouldn't have boated you wouldn't have posted....

    :-)
  18. hldngaflush hldngaflush is offline UT Homer

    Nashville, TN
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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 2:51pm) in reply to Run 4 Shelter

    seeing as he folded before the SB shoved, I am pretty sure your post makes zero sense R4S.

    def not collusion, standard shove, but 23o ...
  19. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Aug 4th, 2009 (8/4/2009 3:28pm) in reply to heavyj80

     
    Originally Posted by heavyj80 View Post

    lol no

    170 2 

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  20. PokerAK PokerAK is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 4:21am) in reply to PokerAK

    The title of this topic is actually deceptive. I didn't think it was collusion myself either. I was more interested in knowing if there was any justification behind the all in move with 23o. Even with the explanation given by one of the posters in relation to pot odds, I still think it wasn't the best move, given that the hand has the unique property of being domitated by every other hand.
    Thread Starter
  21. Imustcall Imustcall is offline

    Jacksonville, FL
    United States

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 8:39am) in reply to PokerAK

    Fing Cheaters. I'm getting sick and tired of this shit.
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