Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

collusion? Chip leader hasn't played 3 tourneys so maybe he's just an idiot?

Reply to Thread
  1. Pollce State Pollce State is offline

    MO
    United States

    Posts: 156
    Joined: Sep 08

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 2:54pm)

    FT of a 3.3 mtt. Heres two hands. These two end up heads up. Just want to know if you think this was collusion.

    Chipleader has played 3 MTT's period, so i'm willing to listen to he doesn't know better arguments. But really?

    THese are not the only hands, i've emailed FTP to take a look, but the short stack was under 1 BB 3 times and the chipleader actively kept him in it.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #16982745203: $3 + $0.30 Knockout (126515381), Table 41 - 8000/16000 Ante 2000 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:21:13 ET - 2009/12/21
    Seat 1: komaksim (16,200)
    Seat 2: flqflq (25,832)
    Seat 3: Scorciato (276,755)
    Seat 4: Pollce State (62,466)
    Seat 5: ravingmaniac (249,239)
    Seat 8: AntP333 (102,148)
    Seat 9: JTBooker (705,860)
    komaksim antes 2,000
    flqflq antes 2,000
    Scorciato antes 2,000
    Pollce State antes 2,000
    ravingmaniac antes 2,000
    AntP333 antes 2,000
    JTBooker antes 2,000
    JTBooker posts the small blind of 8,000
    komaksim posts the big blind of 14,200, and is all in
    The button is in seat #8
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Pollce State [6c 2d]
    flqflq folds
    Scorciato folds
    Pollce State folds
    ravingmaniac folds
    AntP333 calls 16,000
    JTBooker calls 8,000
    *** FLOP *** [3c 5h 2s]
    JTBooker checks
    AntP333 checks
    *** TURN *** [3c 5h 2s] [4d]
    JTBooker bets 48,000
    AntP333 folds
    JTBooker shows [Kc 8d]
    komaksim shows [Ts 3d]
    Uncalled bet of 48,000 returned to JTBooker
    *** RIVER *** [3c 5h 2s 4d] [Ad]
    JTBooker wins the side pot (3,600)
    JTBooker shows a straight, Five high
    komaksim shows a straight, Five high
    JTBooker ties for the main pot (28,300) with a straight, Five high
    komaksim ties for the main pot (28,300) with a straight, Five high
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 60,200 Main pot 56,600. Side pot 3,600. | Rake 0
    Board: [3c 5h 2s 4d Ad]
    Seat 1: komaksim (big blind) showed [Ts 3d] and won (28,300) with a straight, Five high
    Seat 2: flqflq folded before the Flop
    Seat 3: Scorciato folded before the Flop
    Seat 4: Pollce State folded before the Flop
    Seat 5: ravingmaniac folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: AntP333 (button) folded on the Turn
    Seat 9: JTBooker (small blind) showed [Kc 8d] and won (31,900) with a straight, Five high

    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Pollce State [6s 9h]
    flqflq folds
    Scorciato folds
    Pollce State folds
    ravingmaniac folds
    AntP333 folds
    komaksim: ??????? ???((
    JTBooker folds
    Uncalled bet of 6,200 returned to komaksim
    komaksim mucks
    komaksim wins the pot (30,000)
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 30,000 | Rake 0
    Seat 1: komaksim (big blind) collected (30,000), mucked
    Seat 2: flqflq folded before the Flop
    Seat 3: Scorciato folded before the Flop
    Seat 4: Pollce State folded before the Flop
    Seat 5: ravingmaniac folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: AntP333 (button) folded before the Flop
    Seat 9: JTBooker (small blind) folded before the Flop
  2. MYBLUEDOG MYBLUEDOG is offline

    Greenville, MS
    United States

    Posts: 1,999
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 3:09pm) in reply to Pollce State

    The chipleader deciding to keep the short stack in is not collusion.

    It's an effective leverage tactic to put pressure on the medium to short stacks at the table (those trying to hang on for the money).

    It's to the advantage of the CL to allow him to abuse the other players. He has more opportunities to steal from timid players.

    If you did not know this, you are behind the times. This tactic has been around for over 20 years.
    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  3. sgildea25 sgildea25 is offline

    Nashua, NH
    United States

    Posts: 777
    Joined: Jan 08

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 3:11pm) in reply to MYBLUEDOG

     
    Originally Posted by MYBLUEDOG View Post

    The chipleader deciding to keep the short stack in is not collusion.

    It's an effective leverage tactic to put pressure on the medium to short stacks at the table (those trying to hang on for the money).

    It's to the advantage of the CL to allow him to abuse the other players. He has more opportunities to steal from timid players.

    If you did not know this, you are behind the times. This tactic has been around for over 20 years.
    <INPUT id=gwProxy type=hidden><INPUT id=jsProxy onclick=jsCall(); type=hidden>

    ^^This. Because if he knocks out the other players as opposed to the SS, he can get HU with a 100 to 1 chip advantage and it'll be over in 2 hands (most likely) from forced all-in. He's making the other players play poker against him, while simply ignoring the short stack for the time being.

    It's a scummy move in my book, but it works to keep the medium-stacks in line to "wait for the shortstack to bust."
  4. EyeKnows EyeKnows is online now

    Posts: 6,643
    Joined: Sep 06

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 3:34pm) in reply to sgildea25

     
    Originally Posted by sgildea25 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by MYBLUEDOG View Post

    The chipleader deciding to keep the short stack in is not collusion.

    It's an effective leverage tactic to put pressure on the medium to short stacks at the table (those trying to hang on for the money).

    It's to the advantage of the CL to allow him to abuse the other players. He has more opportunities to steal from timid players.

    If you did not know this, you are behind the times. This tactic has been around for over 20 years.
    <INPUT id=gwProxy type=hidden><INPUT id=jsProxy onclick=jsCall(); type=hidden>

    It's a scummy move in my book

    htf is this in any way 'scummy'?
  5. sgildea25 sgildea25 is offline

    Nashua, NH
    United States

    Posts: 777
    Joined: Jan 08

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 3:40pm) in reply to EyeKnows

     
    Originally Posted by EyeKnows View Post

    htf is this in any way 'scummy'?

    I just think you should play the game. I've seen this come back to bite some CL's in the ass when they try this, but it doesn't happen enough where it's not a good move.
    Maybe just envious of being the CL of a big MTT FT because I rarely ever get there .
  6. mdshack14 mdshack14 is offline

    Auburn Hills, MI
    United States

    Posts: 5,646
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 3:44pm) in reply to Pollce State

    if by scummy you mean good strategy they yeah, it's scummy.
     
  7. vitobiggs vitobiggs is offline

    Leawood, KS
    United States

    Posts: 341
    Joined: Nov 07

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 3:51pm) in reply to Pollce State

    Collusion in a $3.30 MTT, that just blew my mind.

    He either knew what he was doing as mentioned above, I doubt it. Or he didn't know any better.
     1
  8. Pollce State Pollce State is offline

    MO
    United States

    Posts: 156
    Joined: Sep 08

    Dec 21st, 2009 (12/21/2009 4:08pm) in reply to MYBLUEDOG

     
    Originally Posted by MYBLUEDOG View Post

    The chipleader deciding to keep the short stack in is not collusion.

    It's an effective leverage tactic to put pressure on the medium to short stacks at the table (those trying to hang on for the money).

    It's to the advantage of the CL to allow him to abuse the other players. He has more opportunities to steal from timid players.

    If you did not know this, you are behind the times. This tactic has been around for over 20 years.
    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

    Damn shit's aggressive.

    In his third tourney, his first since July, the chipleader was using this tactic? Doubtful.

    Chipleader is a brit, shorty is a russian. I'm leaning towards they didn't have a clue what they were doing but whatever i'll live.
    Thread Starter
Reply to Thread