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Collusion and stealing from players sitting out..

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  1. johnnyrockin johnnyrockin is offline

    Saint George, UT
    United States

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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 7:58pm)

    This is going to relate to a topic that was somewhat resolved yesterday.

    Lets say a couple players are sitting out and there are players at the table that dont know they can simply call or raise to take their blinds. Another player notices a player doesnt know this and proceeds to tell him to steal anytime it is folded to him and the player behind is sitting out to take their blinds.

    Is educating another player on what to do in UPCOMING situations collusion if you do it openly in the chat?
  2. hooksindahole hooksindahole is offline

    Seattle, WA
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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 8:01pm) in reply to johnnyrockin

    yes

    end thread
  3. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 8:02pm) in reply to johnnyrockin

    It's illegal, but you can mention that they are sitting out instead. Not that you would want to, after all, if he's sitting, you can take the blinds yourself.
  4. johnnyrockin johnnyrockin is offline

    Saint George, UT
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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 8:06pm) in reply to hooksindahole

    I e-mailed stars and they said because it is in reference to a hand that already happened that it wasn't collusion. My argument is because the players are sitting out it will affect future hands... Security is making me talk to the hand on this one.
    Thread Starter
  5. EyeKnows EyeKnows is online now

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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 8:15pm) in reply to johnnyrockin

    So it is OK to say, "look, that guy is SITTING OUT and is liable to be blinded off"? Or, "look, that guy is sitting out and CANNOT DEFEND HIS BLINDS, whatta bummer it must be for him to be so helpless"?

    My real question is, isn't the SB required to steal the BB that is sitting out? Seems like collusion/softplay to fold to a sitting BB if you know he is sitting-out.
  6. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 8:17pm) in reply to EyeKnows

    It's not collusion to fold to the BB if he is sitting out, but it's usually stupid...however

    I have found myself in SNGs where its something like 9k-2k-2k-500 and the 500 is sitting out, and I'll fold to the shorty to continue the abuse.
  7. EyeKnows EyeKnows is online now

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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 8:21pm) in reply to Jennifear

    Isn't it softplay though? What if the BB was your best friend, is it softplay then?
  8. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

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    Mar 9th, 2008 (3/9/2008 8:23pm) in reply to EyeKnows

    It's the opposite of softplay because it's done as a strategic maneuver for your benefit only.
  9. DEADF1SH DEADF1SH is offline

    Boca Raton, FL
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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 10:59am) in reply to Jennifear

  10. elusively elusively is online now

    MD
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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 11:21am) in reply to DEADF1SH

    I saw the SB fold to a sitting out BB last night for the first time ever.

    It was comical.
  11. Neek Neek is offline

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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 11:23am) in reply to johnnyrockin

    Why wouldn't the player that knows just keep his mouth shut and start raising?
     
  12. xxjondxx xxjondxx is offline

    Buffalo, NY
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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 11:25am) in reply to elusively

    a short sb folded to a sitting out bb with like 31 or 32 people left and 30 getting seats in a wsop sat, it was hilarious.
     11
  13. johnnyrockin johnnyrockin is offline

    Saint George, UT
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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 12:37pm) in reply to Neek

    I e-mailed stars about my situation and they told me it wasn't collusion. I sent in examples of chat and the security dept told me it was referencing a previous hand so no rules were broken. I e-mailed again saying it affects future situations and asked the entire chat be reviewed. The same person in Security wrote back a shorter reply stating simply that they still disagree with me. However they in either reply didn't even cite their own rules to clarify why it wasn't collusion. I kept e-mailing and even said I posted this here and included a link...

    Finally they forwarded it to a supervisor who agree'd with me and concluded YES it was collusion, players were warned, however tourney will not be voided.

    They offer nothing though in he form of apology for their own security department's lack of ability to decipher their own rules, wasting mine and their own time really. I asked for a t-shirt, some FPP's, Pictures of Lee Jones in a speedo, anything, turning my doom switch off, something.... jesus

    Oh well I am glad the players got warned at least but it is alittle worrying when people in their own security can't even figure it out.
    Thread Starter
  14. chstone chstone is offline

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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 12:41pm) in reply to Neek

    Well if you are in early position when the sitting out person is in the big blind then you can't really just start raising.

    Unless you are close to a bubble or something just make a note that the person folding to someone sitting out is a moron and probably not aware of a lot of things going on at the table and play accordingly.
  15. Neek Neek is offline

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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 12:54pm) in reply to chstone

    <span> Well if you are in early position when the sitting out person is in the big blind then you can't really just start raising. </span>

    Really? Is there some rule that I'm unaware of?
     
  16. chstone chstone is offline

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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 1:11pm) in reply to Neek

    Well you are certainly more than welcome too. But at that point the person sitting out is barely different than someone who never defends their blind. You are obviously going to raise more often when they are in the big blind, but doing it too much from early position would just be spewy. With a number of people behind you there is a chance someone will a) have a real hand, b)see what you are doing and try to re-steal, or c) see the situation and call more often which will put you out of position.
  17. Neek Neek is offline

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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 1:46pm) in reply to chstone

    Well that's when you stop.

    But if it's folding around enough to the SB where the original poster notices that he keeps having the chance to fold to the sitting out BB, well then raise it a few times. But don't tell the SB to raise.
     
  18. wackyJaxon wackyJaxon is offline Admin X

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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 1:59pm) in reply to Jennifear

    Jennifear, I did this recently in a higher level sng, and 1 of the other two players went ballastic. I ignored the chat for the most part as I felt I was maximizing my own value. He said he was going to email support. I told him support would laugh at him. I never was contacted by the site I was on, and knew this is fair play.
      1 
  19. Hitman Hitman is offline

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    Mar 10th, 2008 (3/10/2008 2:19pm) in reply to johnnyrockin

    I've actually seen the SB fold to an empty seat BB in a live event. Talk about noob. This was years ago in a venue that didn't kill an absent player's hand until the action was on them. Now the generally accepted rule is the absent player's hand is dead immediately after the button receives their final hole card, and most dealers will kill it immediately too.

    Probably would have made for a good picture, everyone at the table kind of looking around at each other with our mouths agape. No one said anything though.
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