[RichardHurtz]

"Will PStars get credit for investigating and disqualifying the winner of the WSOOP and show that online poker can be self-regulated?"

IMO I think that online poker has more of a catchem after the fact instead of a stop it before it happens method. Granted some of this stuff you can not prevent. Other stuff happens right under their nose with public knowledge of the events. IMO online poker can not be self regulated.

[nevertilt22]

for the record, i have proof that oscar133 is cheating. these guys have multiple accounts that they are playing from this is soooooo sick

[Jennings7]

I can see this whole AP fiasco to be way more negative than positive. Anti-gambling advocates will be able to use this to advance their cause, while sites will have to continually prove they are clean. This is bad news.

[85off]

ah if i was killin on AP, i wouldnt leave cuase of this.

[xxjondxx]

the play has always sucked on ap and im not afraid to say it now because no top players will go there anymore. lol, if theres still traffic there I dont plan on stop playing there the money is just too good. Theres no way I can beat the sngs on stars at the stakes that I can crush them on ap.

[P0k3Y]

UB and AP are owned by the same company, but 2 entirely different software development houses work on the software. the only thing they share is marketing and maybe admin and CS.

[nevertilt22]

absolutely correctly

[FiGMan]

while this isnt damning evidence like the rest of the info we have it is still very disturbing and suspicious. At this point it certainly isnt out of the question. Think about this...its not that those accounts can see hole cards. It seems like there is a "super" account which was brought to our attention by Nat and the IP log. #363 or whatever it was. If somehow you could see if that user was logged on to the tables of those winners for the entire tournament as well then that would certainly be the evidence you need. Whoever is on that end of the account is relaying the info to the actual account that wins the tournament.

[ahh_snap]

I think its retarded to hope any of this hits mainstream media. Keep it all handled w/in online poker communities plz.

[Stynsty71]

Like I said earlier this is not proof of anything for certain, but it does look rather odd that the only people who have won the 150K on AP in the last month or so have hardly played any tourneys at all. I think it deserves being looked into.

[Bulldogmafia]

http://www.plusev.net/

[Lenny lail henny!]

Feel free to post all concerns, thoughts ideas here.

Please no new threads.

TY,

Lenny

Existing threads:

AP 1k super account: HH on page 4, stunning IP info on page 8 from Nat... MUST SEE

petition to p5s admin to remove absolute poker from advertising

POTRIPPER PXF HH

PLEASE READ: Absolute Poker info.

Post regarding IP info from pg.8 of waco's thread:

<table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#eeeedd"><td bgcolor="#ffffff"></td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"> </td><td>Re(4): AP 1k super account HH now posted on page 4... MUST SEE
by flopnmynuts on 10/14/2007 16:46 </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><nobr> </nobr> </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td bgcolor="#ffffff"></td><td colspan="2"><table celspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"><tbody><tr><td>Uh Oh Nath on 2 plus 2 says hes got a Costa Rican IP and email of who he believes the cheater is.......boooom </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> <table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#eeeedd"><td bgcolor="#ffffff"></td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"> </td><td>Re(4): AP 1k super account HH now posted on page 4... MUST SEE
by TheWacoKidd on 10/14/2007 16:47 </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><nobr> </nobr> </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td bgcolor="#ffffff"></td><td colspan="2"><table celspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"><tbody><tr><td>from Nat on 2+2 WOWOWOW

Holy [censored], I think I found him and I'm like 99% sure this is nota coincidence. Skip to the bolded text if you don't care about thedetails.

I put all of the IP/email address lines in the following type of SQL table:

CREATE TABLE `ipinfo` (
`table` int(3) NOT NULL,
`date` datetime NOT NULL,
`action` varchar(10) NOT NULL,
`email` varchar(80) NOT NULL,
`userid` int(15) NOT NULL,
`ip` varchar(25) NOT NULL,
`port` int(8) NOT NULL
) ENGINE=MyISAM DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;

Then I ran the following query:

SELECT *
FROM `ipinfo`
GROUP BY `email`
ORDER BY `ip` ASC

It returned 267 rows.

Thenin the IP range starting with 200, there are two guys with identicalIPs. snagglepuss alerted me to these two guys earlier. But here's the evidence on one of the guys:

1. This guy "enters" table 13 at 2007-09-12 21:02:14, which is 2 minutes and 14 seconds after the tourney started.
2. Table 13 is the table which POTRIPPER was playing on
3.He never leaves the table, which means he was observing the table untilat least 11:20 PM EST (at least, that's how I understand this)
4. His IP address is based in Costa Rica.
5.This is the most damning. He is user id 363 at AP. That means he wascreated in the system very very early on. Most of these user ids are inthe 6 or 7 figures.

I think this tells me that there was some sort of inside job going on.

I will withhold his IP and email for the time being.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[holmes304]

[creeps]

i thought i saw that helmuth signed w/ UB. makes sense.

[B_O_K_E]

Absolute Poker has basically been stapled as a "rigged" site, yet I still see big names playing there on the weekend. Why should AP change anything, it has not missed a beat since this scam and has grown in profiting since? Hats off to AP, like Br said, "they can rake their game and cheat it too." Best of both worlds Bish!

Boke

[delete21]

it has not missed a beat since this scam and has grown in profiting since?

Where are you getting this from?

[B_O_K_E]

Shit someone please move this thread to the condensed AP posts. Thanks, Boke.

[xxjondxx]

hmmmm jannemanned I lost to him hu and Impretty sure he didnt have a super account because the final hand was me getting my 99 in vs his 55. alksjdfklajsdf;jklsajfslkjfoihejflajsflsakjf just thinking about it makes me suicidal.

edit: the last hand

<pre><tt><tt>Stage #922721056 Tourney ID 1891154 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No
Limit $32000 - 2007-09-29 22:10:43.008 (ET) [ 2007-09-29 22:10:43 ]
Table: 35 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 4 - JANNEMAND ($1084920 in chips)
Seat 9 - XXJONDXX ($350080 in chips)
JANNEMAND - Ante $1600
XXJONDXX - Ante $1600
JANNEMAND - Posts small blind $16000
XXJONDXX - Posts big blind $32000
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to XXJONDXX [9h 9d]
JANNEMAND - Raises $400000 to $416000
XXJONDXX - All-In $316480
JANNEMAND - returned ($67520) : not called
*** FLOP *** [10s Ad 5h]
*** TURN *** [10s Ad 5h] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [10s Ad 5h 2c] [As]
JANNEMAND - Shows [5s 5c] (Full house, fives full of aces)
*** SHOW DOWN ***
XXJONDXX - Shows [9h 9d] (Two Pair, aces and nines)
JANNEMAND Collects $700160 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($700160)
Board [10s Ad 5h 2c As]
Seat 4: JANNEMAND (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($700160)
HI:($700160) with Full house, fives full of aces [5s 5c -
P:5s,B:5h,P:5c,B:As,B:Ad]
Seat 9: XXJONDXX (big blind) HI:lost with Two Pair, aces and nines [9h
9d - B:As,B:Ad,P:9h,P:9d,B:10s] </tt></tt></pre>

[delete21]

$0 buy-in, $1,415 prize pool tournament on pokerstars, 10/5/2007, 89th for $2 (2.54 points)

$0 buy-in, $1,274 prize pool tournament on PokerStars, 9/24/2007, 102nd for $2 (2.23 points)

$0 buy-in, $1,447 prize pool tournament on PokerStars, 9/23/2007, 122nd for $2 (2.13 points)

<CENTER>Current Sliding PLB Score: 6.90
(6.60th percentile)

How did you do this?</CENTER>

[Rhoof]

I love that damn site UB. I know I have issues. I don't want to start another AP thread. So anyone w/ any specific information on how this effects UB? Any big cash game players withdrawing money? The platforms are independent? Anyone transfering the money from AP to UB as a first step?

[HelenRNurse]

First, Rhoof, the word is Affect......not effect! Second, UB & AP are two separate entities. I see no reason that there would be a superplayer on UB, unless of course it was H0! :)

[JackBileDuct]

The platforms are independent. It is different software. However I think the way the AP management has handled this is damning and tells what they think of their clients ( suckers ). Not to be a conspiracy nut but at this point I seriously question if the AP scandal was an inside job. It looks more and more like it was. That puts UB in the same trash pile as AP IMHO.

[Vegas624]

xxJondxx,

Just wondering if he could see, and played the hand anyways seeing as he had you covered, and even if he doesn't hit his 5, he will just get you later, leading you to believe exactly what you stated, "I got my chips in with the best hand so he isn't a superuser acct"? Great way to cover it up? Just a thought...

Just looking at it as he's played and won only one large tournament, and never played again?? This is rediculous!!

[Chicos75]

http://www.absolutepokercheats.com/

[Stynsty71]

^^^ I was thinking the same thing. I again want to state for the record I am not accusing the people I listed as cheaters, it just looks very suspicious with all of the allegations going on that they all have very low volume and high success in the last month or so.

[wmariner]

When people always used toclaim online poker is rigged. I always replied with "Well these siteshave a third party regulator such as a gaming commision or such" Wellwhere is the one for Absolute Poker? I havnt played there in about ayear or two but I think they claimed they had one.. Does this mean allthat jazz about a third party overlooking integrity is all bs? Do anyother sites use same third party as absolute?

Please dont move this thread.. Id like to get some answers and some people dont like to sift through ten pages of garbage...

This is a different question...

[Lenny lail henny!]

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/

[RichardHurtz]

"I think its retarded to hope any of this hits mainstream media. Keep it all handled w/in online poker communities plz."

Absoulutely not! The poker community has time and time again proven that they can not/will not police themselves. Its time to force their hand so to speak.

[xxjondxx]

well potripper didnt seem to hide the fact that he could see hole cards as shown by the last hand. hmm well im looking thru the hh and he is making some huge raises when I have nothing but Im pretty sure he sucked. lemme see if i can find a good example.

single edit: also his chip stack sucks for most of the final table, where pot ripper had accumulated a million chips. this guy also has raised 2 times and folded to shoves then limp folds to a shove.

double edit: I dunno its hard to say he didnt show down 1 hand basically the whole time I was at his table. He shoved,raised,called and bet flops or turns, craised and didnt go to showdown. He called my all in when i shoved a3 into his aj which is standard though. Still I dunno if people at Ap are smart enough to let me win a hand during the Hu to throw me off their track. He picked off a lot of my cbets tho and a few of my steal attempts pf. Still hard to say.

triple edit: this hand also makes me think he wasnt a super account

<pre><tt><tt>Stage #922698088 Tourney ID 1891154 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No
Limit $24000 - 2007-09-29 21:52:16.001 (ET) [ 2007-09-29 21:52:16 ]
Table: 35 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealer
Seat 4 - JANNEMAND ($522680 in chips)
Seat 9 - XXJONDXX ($748803 in chips)
Seat 7 - POCKET PUKE ($163517 in chips)
JANNEMAND - Ante $1000
POCKET PUKE - Ante $1000
XXJONDXX - Ante $1000
XXJONDXX - Posts small blind $12000
JANNEMAND - Posts big blind $24000
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to XXJONDXX [9c 6c]
POCKET PUKE - Folds
XXJONDXX - Calls $12000
JANNEMAND - Checks
*** FLOP *** [8h 8d Ad]
XXJONDXX - Checks
JANNEMAND - Bets $32000
XXJONDXX - Raises $112000 to $112000
JANNEMAND - Folds
XXJONDXX - returned ($80000) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
XXJONDXX - Does not show
XXJONDXX Collects $115000 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($115000)
Seat 4: JANNEMAND (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 7: POCKET PUKE (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Board [8h 8d Ad]
Seat 9: XXJONDXX (small blind) collected Total ($115000) HI:($115000)
[Does not show] <span>

another hand

</span></tt></tt><tt><tt>Table: 35 (Real Money) Seat #9 is the dealer [ 2007-09-29 22:09:34 ]
Stage #922719721 Tourney ID 1891154 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No
Limit $28000 - 2007-09-29 22:09:34.008 (ET)
Seat 9 - XXJONDXX ($200640 in chips)
Seat 4 - JANNEMAND ($1234360 in chips)
JANNEMAND - Ante $1400
XXJONDXX - Ante $1400
XXJONDXX - Posts small blind $14000
JANNEMAND - Posts big blind $28000
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to XXJONDXX [Qd Js]
XXJONDXX - All-In(Raise) $185240 to $199240
JANNEMAND - Calls $171240
*** FLOP *** [10d 5c 4d]
*** TURN *** [10d 5c 4d] [Qh]
*** RIVER *** [10d 5c 4d Qh] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JANNEMAND - Shows [8s 9c] (king high)
XXJONDXX - Shows [Qd Js] (One pair, queens)
XXJONDXX Collects $401280 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($401280)
Board [10d 5c 4d Qh Kd]
Seat 4: JANNEMAND (big blind) HI:lost with king high [8s 9c -
B:Kd,B:Qh,B:10d,P:9c,P:8s]
Seat 9: XXJONDXX (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($401280) All-In
HI:($401280) with One pair, queens [Qd Js - B:Qh,P:Qd,B:Kd,P:Js,B:10d] </tt></tt>
</pre>

[RichardHurtz]

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/

LOL

About Absolute poker:

<h1>About Us</h1>
“Absolute Poker and this web site is thesole, true and lawful property of “Tokwiro Enterprises Enrg”, whoseoperations are located on the south shore of the St. Lawrence River,nine (9) miles south of downtown Montreal, Quebec, Canada, located onlands known as the Mohawk (Kanien:kaha’ka) Territory of Kahnawake,belonging to the Mohawk Nation.

“Tokwiro EnterprisesEnrg” is a recognized Mohawk owned and controlled, gaming soleproprietorship, presently undergoing a licencing process with the “Kahnawake Gaming Commission” (“KGC”),which was itself established on the 10th day of Ohiarí:ha/June, 1996.The “KGC” is empowered to regulate, control and licence all forms ofgaming and gaming-related activities conducted within and from theMohawk Territory of Kahnawake, in accordance with the highestprinciples of honesty and integrity. The “KGC” enforces regulations,which are designed to ensure, amongst other goals, the followingessential elements, which are clearly enshrined in all gaming-relatedactivities:

Next time I'm in montreal I'll stop by for a little vist. Would love a tour.