So you're in the cutoff 6 handed and have Q8s, JTs, A9o, 77 something like that with a stack of around 2800 and the blinds at 100/200 you have an M of just over 9.

Folded around to me in this spot I generally start raising 2.5x the BB, I play low stakes and pot odds effects their decisions very little, they are either will to call a raise or not for the most part, unless you start making BIG raisies.

You get a call from the big blind.

Flop comes down generally uncoordinated, but with one high card and a couple low cards, maybe 2 matching suites, but you have no pair and only runner runner draws.

BB checks to you.

Pot is now 1100
You have 2300 in your stack.

I have real trouble hear. When I bet and I take it down I feel like a genious and add close to 20% to my starting stack for the hand. When I bet and get raised or bet and called and have to shut down I lose 30% of my starting stack.

C-Bet works 3400
C-Bet fails 1800

If I make the bet and met resistance, unless I catch a real hand before the blinds get to me, they go through me and I'll be down to 1500 and in push fold mode for any subsequent play,

Of course when it works I feel great and probably have moved up from 3rd or 4th to 1st or 2nd in chips.

What are your guys general rules of thumb here. Obviously if you're VERY good you can look into your crystal ball, put the guy on a hand think about what he may or may not lay down, what cards could scare him off his hand. put him on a draw and know that if it gets to the river and he missed you can take the pot, ect... But I generally can't put on hands this early in a hand.

I'm starting to think these high risk, high reward plays need to be kept to a minimum, because a check then folding to a bet on the turn leaves you with a pretty healthy stack and the ability to come after the blinds one more time before going into push fold mode.

If I am in this spot I only bet if it is a really good flop that he most likely didnt hit. And if i bet I like t o leave myself with a stack big enough to have some fold equity if he raises me. So If I leave myself with at least 8 Big blinds, then i have an all in stack, but it certainly has some fold equity.

Also, with only a fourteen BB stack and loose players in the blinds I dont like raising here with out a very good hand(like aq+,99+). That sounds ridiculously tight but, you just dont have a big enough stack to bluff loose players out of pots. I would wait for a premium hand and/or wait till I have an all in stack( ten BB or less) and then start pushing at every + EV situation that arises.

"So you're in the cutoff 6 handed and have Q8s, JTs, A9o, 77 something like that with a stack of around 2800 and the blinds at 100/200 you have an M of just over 9."

"Folded around to me in this spot I generally start raising 2.5x the BB, I play low stakes and pot odds effects their decisions very little, they are either will to call a raise or not for the most part, unless you start making BIG raisies."

In low stakes SNGs, I think this is fairly unnecessary. The thing about low stakes SNGs is that the most common leak you will find is that people call too much with thin values, without considering pot odds, position, etc. I'd raise it with the 77 and the A9, but I would recommend cutting out hands like Q8s and JTs, since the kinds of hands that will call you in these situations will often have you dominated.

Just raise with good hands unless you can find a tight player to pick on who won't play back. Don't play the guessing game when you don't have to.

"You get a call from the big blind."

"Flop comes down generally uncoordinated, but with one high card and a couple low cards, maybe 2 matching suites, but you have no pair and only runner runner draws."

"BB checks to you."

"Pot is now 1100
You have 2300 in your stack."

"I have real trouble hear. When I bet and I take it down I feel like a genious and add close to 20% to my starting stack for the hand. When I bet and get raised or bet and called and have to shut down I lose 30% of my starting stack."

What do you know about the Big Blind player? Generally, when you get to 6-handed or less, you should have a pretty good line on your opposition, or at least know that you don't have a good line on them and shouldn't get cute with them.

If they check-raise with some frequency, check it behind and see the turn. If they habitually bet when they hit and check when they miss, then bet into them. It all really depends on the player. Texture of the flop is also really important. Flops like Ad 8c 3s are much better to bluff into (when you raised preflop) than flops like Jc Tc 4d or 4d 5c 6s, since there are fewer ways your opponent can find a call when there are no real draws and a high card that is likely to have helped you out.

"C-Bet works 3400
C-Bet fails 1800"

"If I make the bet and met resistance, unless I catch a real hand before the blinds get to me, they go through me and I'll be down to 1500 and in push fold mode for any subsequent play, "

"Of course when it works I feel great and probably have moved up from 3rd or 4th to 1st or 2nd in chips."

"What are your guys general rules of thumb here. Obviously if you're VERY good you can look into your crystal ball, put the guy on a hand think about what he may or may not lay down, what cards could scare him off his hand. put him on a draw and know that if it gets to the river and he missed you can take the pot, ect... But I generally can't put on hands this early in a hand."

I would work on that. You should be able to have a good feel by the flop where you are at. You shouldn't focus on putting anyone on a specific hand, but rather a grouping of possible hands with various probabilities to know where you are "usually" at here.

A few things I would note:
- Continuation betting into coordinated boards is not the best idea. You really shouldn't be continuation betting 100% of the time anyway, so a good idea is to cut out the flops that give people reasonable help. At this stage, you don't have deep enough stacks to play out a hand from start to finish without committing yourself. So avoid putting too many chips on the line when someone might call you down with a draw (that might actually be best hand anyway).
- It's not generally a good idea to induce a "big laydown" in small stakes SNGs ... by that I mean that you should not be trying to get a person to fold second pair or better :) ... a lot of people play these games for recreation and entertainment, and don't care about calling with what is the "obvious worst hand". So take advantage of that by value betting rather than bluffing.

"I'm starting to think these high risk, high reward plays need to be kept to a minimum, because a check then folding to a bet on the turn leaves you with a pretty healthy stack and the ability to come after the blinds one more time before going into push fold mode."

My last piece of advice is a simple one, but one that will net you a lot of money in the long run. VALUE BET. Don't try to be "fancy aggressive". The real money is in grinding it out, getting chips in when you have the best hand, even if not by much.

I don't keep exact stats, but according to Sharkscope I have a 24% ROI in the low stakes pokerstars SNGs, and I don't open raise on the cutoff with the hands I suggested cutting out when I have 14-15 times the BB ... EVER.

thanks for the input, that was a great post.

Is the reason you stay away from those hands in the 14-15BB range because they don't play well after the flop pushing with them now is WAY too risky, so if you raise and get called you're exactly in the situation I describe.

I understand that starting hand requirements change drastically as your Q and M and table size change. And in general you play more hands speculatively when the blinds are tiny, don't over commit chips with hands like AK, AQ because people are willing to call off 4-6BB at the first two levels with their speculative hands. In the middle levels AK and AQ become great hands to make big raises with, but hands like 66 89s become completely unplayable. When you get short (8bb) hands like QTs are perfect to push from the cut off, also hands like 66 are also good to get your money in with with and M of 4 or 5, or even to put pressure on a player with an M of 4 or 5 if you have an M of 10 or so.

So basically what you are advocating is to not even try to steal the blinds with the more medium strength hands that are decent speculative hands early, and decent pushing hands late.

I think it does (need to stay in the repitoire) but I think the idea is to take down the blinds uncontested. Barring that, I think you have to hit your hand. For me, I'm opening with a strong A (AT+, maybe A9) or strong K, PP 8+, QJ. I am also very aware of the stack sizes left to act when I make my raise. I am very wary of the big stack and the small stacks. The big stack can afford to make a loose call, and the shorties are looking to double, and are more likely to shove over the top, so I make adjustments on my opening requirements based on that

when my M gets 9ish, I tighten up, I want to save my chips for a strong hand/play. With a bigger M, I open up and try and steal with more hands.

Absolutely, I'm lookin for a hand to shove with at that time(actually 7ish for me)