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Controlling Pot Size OOP

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  1. chronkie chronkie is offline

    Columbus, OH
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    Aug 8th, 2012 (8/8/2012 7:08pm)

    When playing pots preflop in early position it is my understanding that you should be raising larger than you would in late position with similar hands. The reasoning for this I am assuming is to discourage others from playing against you when you are OOP.

    In turn this creates larger pots postflop, OOP. It seems almost counter intuitive that you would want to be playing larger pots OOP than you would in position. Obviously I know that your EP range will be much tighter. So can you get away with beefing pots preflop because you will be playing better hands? Can anyone give me some insight on how to control pots or help straighten out my understanding of this concept.

    How should I be playing postflop to limit my losses when playing OOP? If anyone could include HH's of hands including this concept it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance.
  2. EricWRX EricWRX is offline

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    Aug 8th, 2012 (8/8/2012 10:35pm) in reply to chronkie

    Playing OOP sucks...Don't be afraid to check fold, especially early when it doesn't really matter if you give up a small amount. Cbetting is far less effective than it was like a year ago imo, people just don't give them credit.

    No need to raise bigger or smaller because of your position...i tend to raise smaller pre ante from EP actually cause if i get 3b i will have decent implied odds as people will 3b smaller. Shouldn't be "much tighter" from EP either...tighter but still have a balanced range(although that statement is completely over rated) i think it becomes more important deeper in tourneys but don't worry too much about it pre ante.

    For controlling the pot i would say make your bet sizes according to what you would be willing to call if you check and he bets. I'd rather just bet fold 1/4-1/3 of the pot rather than just check call any amount they make it.

    Just avoid playing OOP as much as possible though unless you do have a hand you're obv not folding keep it aggressive and in position
     
  3. chronkie chronkie is offline

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    Aug 10th, 2012 (8/10/2012 6:19am) in reply to EricWRX

    Even if c-betting is not nearly as effective it still should be an essential part of any successful players arsenal, imo. It only has to be successful less than half of the time for it to be a profitable play. Although it may not be as effective, it is still completely necessary.

    I don't necessarily agree with all of your points, but I may be way off base. Is there really no need to vary bet sizes based off of position? I would like to see what others have to say about this.
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  4. EricWRX EricWRX is offline

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    Aug 10th, 2012 (8/10/2012 8:56am) in reply to chronkie

     
    Originally Posted by chronkie View Post

    Even if c-betting is not nearly as effective it still should be an essential part of any successful players arsenal, imo. It only has to be successful less than half of the time for it to be a profitable play. Although it may not be as effective, it is still completely necessary.

    I don't necessarily agree with all of your points, but I may be way off base. Is there really no need to vary bet sizes based off of position? I would like to see what others have to say about this.

    I didn't say stop cbetting...obv is necessary. Just saying pre ante vs one guy you don't have to be cbetting every time cause it's not that necessary.

    I meant pre ante for bet sizing...Thread is about pot control, i'm making points that control the pot. Not saying how to play every hand. But yeah, if you want to control the pot bet smaller. Like i said, i'd rather make a small bet and have someone call rather than check and have to call a big bet oop
     
  5. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

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    Aug 10th, 2012 (8/10/2012 10:12am) in reply to EricWRX

    I never change my bet sizing based on position. It's difficult to do when playing a lot of tables. It's also hard to do and maintain balance. I'm sure some people have effective strategies of doing so, but most MTT players just min raise once antes and 2.5x to 3x pre antes from all positions.
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  6. chrisp200 chrisp200 is offline

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    Aug 10th, 2012 (8/10/2012 10:43am) in reply to chronkie

     
    Originally Posted by chronkie View Post

    When playing pots preflop in early position it is my understanding that you should be raising larger than you would in late position with similar hands. The reasoning for this I am assuming is to discourage others from playing against you when you are OOP.
    .


    I don't know where you learned this, but it is completely false.
     
  7. cracker9ball cracker9ball is offline

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    Aug 10th, 2012 (8/10/2012 11:41am) in reply to chronkie

     
    Originally Posted by chronkie View Post

    When playing pots preflop in early position it is my understanding that you should be raising larger than you would in late position with similar hands. The reasoning for this I am assuming is to discourage others from playing against you when you are OOP.

    In turn this creates larger pots postflop, OOP. It seems almost counter intuitive that you would want to be playing larger pots OOP than you would in position. Obviously I know that your EP range will be much tighter. So can you get away with beefing pots preflop because you will be playing better hands? Can anyone give me some insight on how to control pots or help straighten out my understanding of this concept.

    How should I be playing postflop to limit my losses when playing OOP? If anyone could include HH's of hands including this concept it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance.

    It would seem to me that this would go a lot better for you if you posted the hands you have questions about.
     
  8. chronkie chronkie is offline

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    Aug 10th, 2012 (8/10/2012 5:53pm) in reply to chrisp200

     
    Originally Posted by chrisp200 View Post

    I don't know where you learned this, but it is completely false.

    I guess there was a reason that it seemed counter intuitive lol. Anyways, I appreciate the feedback.

    In regards to where I 'learned' this:

    Harrington: "You are out of position...you'll be acting first on every subsequent betting round. That's a big disadvantage, so you should at least make some effort to finish the hand early."

    This coupled with some commentary by Jcarver, which i have heard him mention on several different occassions, is what lead me to my 'misunderstanding'. If any of you guys are interested as it seems that you think im retarded, here's a link. He makes a comment about it at 1:30 mins in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3w_V...eature=related

    He says that your open size raising should slowly decrease from about 2.7x from utg on to a min raise once you get to the button. Obviously to me it seems a little weird as well which is why I brought it up in the first place. I'd be interested in your guys input if you any of you take the time to watch the first 3 or 4 mins of that vid.
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