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Couple of hands from $2.20 stars MTT

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  1. smithy2588 smithy2588 is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 5:37pm)

    Hi guys couple of hands here from an MTT that I'd like some comments on. Will post results later if required.

    pokerstars Hand #84047445932: Tournament #593440858, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (30/60) - 2012/07/30 14:27:37 WET [2012/07/30 9:27:37 ET]
    Table '593440858 24' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: Bispoland (3826 in chips)
    Seat 2: guustaaf14 (4585 in chips)
    Seat 3: patricksvr6 (2816 in chips)
    Seat 4: smithy2588 (3735 in chips)
    Seat 5: Mor2-42 (3209 in chips)
    Seat 6: Mikle Dudin (4049 in chips)
    Seat 7: hillthebilly (2020 in chips)
    Seat 8: an-mag78 (2188 in chips)
    Seat 9: sr alamar (3730 in chips)
    patricksvr6: posts small blind 30
    smithy2588: posts big blind 60
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to smithy2588 [As 9c]
    Mor2-42: calls 60
    Mikle Dudin: folds
    hillthebilly: calls 60
    an-mag78: folds
    sr alamar: calls 60
    Bispoland: folds
    guustaaf14: folds
    patricksvr6: folds
    smithy2588: checks
    *** FLOP *** [Ac Jc 4s]
    smithy2588: bets 120
    Mor2-42: folds
    hillthebilly: calls 120
    sr alamar: folds
    *** TURN *** [Ac Jc 4s] [2d]
    smithy2588: bets 180
    hillthebilly: calls 180
    *** RIVER *** [Ac Jc 4s 2d] [8h]
    smithy2588: checks
    hillthebilly: bets 720

    Hero ?

    Villain was 54/15 over over 39 hands.

    PokerStars Hand #84050379946: Tournament #593440858, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (250/500) - 2012/07/30 15:50:36 WET [2012/07/30 10:50:36 ET]
    Table '593440858 44' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 1: Master220 (17370 in chips)
    Seat 2: scorpios25 (12995 in chips)
    Seat 3: kikentaiichi (9445 in chips)
    Seat 4: 1plusone (14735 in chips)
    Seat 5: Selassar (27464 in chips)
    Seat 6: smithy2588 (14200 in chips)
    Seat 7: Pastanelli (28150 in chips)
    Seat 8: MaTeX-89 (17145 in chips)
    Seat 9: Heopsss (10255 in chips)
    Master220: posts the ante 60
    scorpios25: posts the ante 60
    kikentaiichi: posts the ante 60
    1plusone: posts the ante 60
    Selassar: posts the ante 60
    smithy2588: posts the ante 60
    Pastanelli: posts the ante 60
    MaTeX-89: posts the ante 60
    Heopsss: posts the ante 60
    Heopsss: posts small blind 250
    Master220: posts big blind 500
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to smithy2588 [Jc Jh]
    scorpios25: folds
    kikentaiichi: folds
    1plusone: raises 500 to 1000
    Selassar: folds
    smithy2588: raises 1000 to 2000
    Pastanelli: raises 3000 to 5000
    MaTeX-89: folds
    Heopsss: folds
    Master220: folds
    1plusone: folds

    Hero ?

    Original raiser had been fairly active 33/14. 4 bettor was running 34/3

    Should i just get it in here? Or can I fold and wait for another spot?

    Feedback appreciated
  2. AjintOrange AjintOrange is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 5:54pm) in reply to smithy2588

    On the first one, you are out of position with a vulnerable holding. You are also deep stacked. The flop bet is fine, but I think you should be checking the turn for pot control. You are probably a little ahead or way behind. On the river, this is an easy fold. You are still very deep, no reason to call and prey.
    Edited By: AjintOrange Jul 30th, 2012 at 06:11 PM
    Reason: Wrote something about a different hand
  3. pokergandhi pokergandhi is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 6:06pm) in reply to AjintOrange

    Hand 1: i never Donk the flop here. C/c flop. As played I call.

    Hand 2: fold
    Edited By: pokergandhi Jul 30th, 2012 at 06:06 PM
     
  4. AjintOrange AjintOrange is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 6:06pm) in reply to pokergandhi

    On the second one, I'll assume that you haven't been 3 betting very often. I'll also assume that you aren't so tight that people are tripping over themselves to raise you. If that is the case and you haven't seen this guy get crazy raising people all in will small pocket pairs, then I think your best hope is that you are racing. Looks like folding is probably best here.
  5. P0KERDUUDE P0KERDUUDE is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 6:34pm) in reply to AjintOrange

    The first one I like how you bet the flop, and the turn, and with the flush draw out there I'm 100% calling this bet on the river. With his high % of VPIP I wouldn't be surprised to see J8 or something also, but I think it's going to be a missed draw a large % of the time.

    The second one is fold if you can find the button
     
  6. pokergandhi pokergandhi is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 6:36pm) in reply to P0KERDUUDE

     
    Originally Posted by P0KERDUUDE View Post

    The first one I like how you bet the flop, and the turn, and with the flush draw out there I'm 100% calling this bet on the river. With his high % of VPIP I wouldn't be surprised to see J8 or something also, but I think it's going to be a missed draw a large % of the time.

    The second one is fold if you can find the button

    Why is donking the flop better than c/c?
     
  7. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 6:42pm) in reply to pokergandhi

    Hand 1: Agree with Pokerdude. The reason donking is better is because not a lot of people are going to have a better Ax in a limped pot and you can get value from flush draws, worse Ax hands and worse pairs. I shrug call river because he could easily have J8 or A2, but can also have random air. If you're not willing to c/c river, b/f is better, but c/c>b/f>c/f most of the time.

    Hand 2: Kind of gross to fold JJ with 28bbs, but when a 34/3 player 3 bets you you're not in good shape. Fold.
    Edited By: tyson219 Jul 30th, 2012 at 06:44 PM
    Reason: worse aces too
      1
  8. Exterminate U Exterminate U is offline

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    Jul 30th, 2012 (7/30/2012 8:57pm) in reply to tyson219

    hand 1 i am calling ... he flats you on both streets up to the river and when the river hits, club draws and broadway draws missed ... he could have spiked a lucky 2 pair on the river or slow played a set bc $2 players almost always flat/trap with sets but i just feel like given the board texture and the way the hand played out that he misses here a large percentage of the time

    as for hand 2, i personally would 3 bet to a little more probably like 2500ish ...but as played its one of those puke spots , against any active opponent that has been 3 and 4 betting often its an easy shove but given your info it seems shady , definitely smells like AA or KK most likely AA ... it sucks to give up 2k with the fairly small stack that you have but AK is the only hand that you beat here which you still flip against ...therefore it's probably a fold, even though i personally would have trouble finding the fold button, but whatever you do make sure you don't flat call the 4bet bc that will just put you in an incredibly awkward spot with like 35% of your chips committed
  9. smithy2588 smithy2588 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2012 (7/31/2012 12:10am) in reply to Exterminate U

    Thanks for all the replies guys. Very useful insight.

    Now for the results:

    Hand 1 I sigh called, villain showed J8o.

    Hand 2 I mucked. Really couldn't see villain doing that with worse than JJ and if he has AK then it's a big flip for ~60bb pot.
    Thread Starter
  10. EricWRX EricWRX is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2012 (7/31/2012 1:10am) in reply to smithy2588

    I like donking into decent players cause they're stubborn in these spots as played i'd prob call...but i'd probably just barrel all three streets and fold if he comes over the top
     
  11. leeroydafish leeroydafish is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2012 (7/31/2012 3:42am) in reply to EricWRX

    1) Pot controlling the first hand would have made your river call a lot cheaper. You don't want to be building a pot out of position with a hand you're not happy to call a river bet with.

    2) Looks like a limpy player with the stats so I'd snap fold this. Your min raise typically looks strong on $2 MTTs and for him to raise if with his passive calling stats gives me the same decision as you. Not worth 60bb of flip at best.
  12. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

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    Jul 31st, 2012 (7/31/2012 3:52am) in reply to leeroydafish

     
    Originally Posted by leeroydafish View Post

    1) Pot controlling the first hand would have made your river call a lot cheaper. You don't want to be building a pot out of position with a hand you're not happy to call a river bet with.

    I disagree. You're way ahead of his calling range. Why do you want to start controlling the pot on the flop and/or turn when you get value instead? Just need to fade 5 outs next time.
      1
  13. leeroydafish leeroydafish is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2012 (8/1/2012 3:50am) in reply to tyson219

     
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    I disagree. You're way ahead of his calling range. Why do you want to start controlling the pot on the flop and/or turn when you get value instead? Just need to fade 5 outs next time.

    Ok I guess I can somewhat see it your way too, but I don't understand the logic of "shrug calling" a solid bet when you haven't shaken him with flop and turn bets. Could you should lead out small to fold out flush draws and block rather than check and call larger?

    A Rag OOP is never easy to play!
  14. Drewdaddy19 Drewdaddy19 is offline Scammer - Do NOT Stake or Trade

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    Aug 1st, 2012 (8/1/2012 9:05pm) in reply to leeroydafish

     
    Originally Posted by leeroydafish View Post

    Ok I guess I can somewhat see it your way too, but I don't understand the logic of "shrug calling" a solid bet when you haven't shaken him with flop and turn bets. Could you should lead out small to fold out flush draws and block rather than check and call larger?

    A Rag OOP is never easy to play!

    I think the shrug call is simply bc of the dynamics of the hand. I think our villian shows up with a ton of missed draws (KQ, Q10, K10, any club draw, etc) given the action up to the river. Hand 2 is a sigh fold for me. His cold 4bet looks really strong.
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