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dealing with call/raises

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  1. Dr.Guillotine Dr.Guillotine is offline

    Detroit, MI
    United States

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    Joined: Jul 09

    Mar 5th, 2011 (3/5/2011 8:24pm)

    What kind of hand range should I generically assign to a player I don't have history with that performs the call/raise function (I'm asking for micros and low stakes)? It's such a tilting move that I personally think is retarded.

    I always end up folding incorrectly and calling incorrectly. Most of time with medium pocket pairs and high broadways AK/AQ/AJ, 99-JJ.

    Recap: What range should I assign for small/micros? How should I play medium strength hands versus that range.
  2. Wein Wein is offline Sunday Millionaire

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    Mar 5th, 2011 (3/5/2011 9:04pm) in reply to Dr.Guillotine

    Guillotine - your question si far to general. It depends on sooooo many things (stack sizes, position in the tournament, position of the raise, etc).

    You aren't going to get anything constructive here until you really try to specify your question.
     
  3. BlindPyro BlindPyro is offline microlifer

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    Mar 5th, 2011 (3/5/2011 9:10pm) in reply to Wein

    if ur talking about the micro 45man turbos u can fairly accurately range anyone who isnt multi tabling them at atc preflop
  4. elimherr elimherr is offline

    Denver, CO
    United States

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    Mar 5th, 2011 (3/5/2011 9:37pm) in reply to BlindPyro

    What is the "call/rais function", are you talking about? Players limp-shoving pre? Give an example of what your talking about, OP is a little vague
     
  5. Dr.Guillotine Dr.Guillotine is offline

    Detroit, MI
    United States

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    Mar 5th, 2011 (3/5/2011 9:39pm) in reply to BlindPyro

    No I'm not talking about 45's or 180s shipping in those with medium strength hands is a must.

    To ease generalities a little...We can assume a few things

    - Great 3-bet fold stacks 35+ bbs. These are also effective stack sizes.
    - we are facing either EP/LP, call/raises
    - 9-max and 6-max table conditions
    - blinds + antes stages of the tournament
    - ICM doesn't matter because we are too far from the bubble
    - Said player 2nd level thinking player, albeit he may be bad (I think this is inherent with any call/raise line because he's trying to elicit raises with worse hands)
    - We have no reads besides the fact that he turns up at showdown with marginal made hands post-flop
    - We know it is possible to 4-bet jam and get called by some worse hands but not very often
    - We have never seen villain pull a call/raise on the table
    Edit: They are only 3-bet raising and never jamming

    I hope this gives enough conditions, Wein.
    Edited By: Dr.Guillotine Mar 5th, 2011 at 09:41 PM
    Thread Starter
  6. felipebball felipebball is offline

    New Zealand

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    Mar 5th, 2011 (3/5/2011 11:41pm) in reply to Dr.Guillotine

    I was actually interested in seeing what point you were going to make....I read all that and I have no idea what you are talking about, congrats on 200 posts tho
  7. Dr.Guillotine Dr.Guillotine is offline

    Detroit, MI
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    Mar 5th, 2011 (3/5/2011 11:56pm) in reply to felipebball

    If I was going to make a point on what my thoughts are with these conditions, it would be that we need to be 4-balling OOP nearly 60% of the time with 10 combinations of bluff hands holding great show down value and AA/KK/QQ as our only value hands, but that seems wrong.

    Folding more than 50% of the time we are 3-bet seems wrong. Jamming when our opponent rarely calls worse is wrong, and I don't want to be stuck flatting a 3-bet OOP with pocket queens on a K high board when I our opponent decides to call/raise us with KQs etc.

    A call/raise is just really crappy when we wake up with hands from blinds and I don't think we can just check most hands 99+/AJo+ from the blinds because we're afraid of that.

    When we're in position flatting the 3-bet is far and a above better with our entire range. Eh, the move tilting.
    Thread Starter
  8. CJDeman CJDeman is offline

    Sydney
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    Mar 6th, 2011 (3/6/2011 12:54am) in reply to Dr.Guillotine

    I still don't understand what a "call/raise" is
     
  9. Dr.Guillotine Dr.Guillotine is offline

    Detroit, MI
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    Mar 6th, 2011 (3/6/2011 12:57am) in reply to CJDeman

    limp/reraise or limp/3-bet

    Edit: They are also called back raises, I think.
    Edited By: Dr.Guillotine Mar 6th, 2011 at 12:59 AM
    Thread Starter
  10. taaffey taaffey is offline

    Canada

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    Mar 6th, 2011 (3/6/2011 1:22am) in reply to Dr.Guillotine

    lol @ this thread. you are really trying to sound smart.

    limp/reraise is almost always a nutted hand. You should very easily fold your medium strength hands vs a ep/limp reraise since the vast majority of players are never going to have a balanced range in these situations.

    there is the odd time in a multiway limped pot where you make a large raise pre to iso and the fish thinks 'ah he's just stealing i'm gonna jam my 44 f that guy'
     
  11. Sagacious Man Sagacious Man is online now

    Australia

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    Mar 6th, 2011 (3/6/2011 3:27am) in reply to taaffey

    lol at this thread. It depends on the player / your hand / pot odds / stack sizes etc. It varies a lot but so often it's not the nuts nowdays. Shortstacks in micros will limp little pair or random broadway cards, because they cant bring themselves to fold and cant raise because they are so short. When someone raises, they think fuck it and ship it in.
  12. PocketSims PocketSims is offline

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    Mar 6th, 2011 (3/6/2011 7:03am) in reply to Sagacious Man

    remember that micros are rly st8 forward so a limp is usually a pair or something else that doesnt warrent a raise. also cld be some1 playing very tricky. like the utg limp u can tread lightly when this happens bcas alot of raise shves with aa kk come from that type of play. Wein is totally right u do need somemore info on your post.
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