My friend and I are having a debate about the following hand:

My friend is irishrep

pokerstars Hand #82550674496:
Tournament #579010513, $3.00+$0.30 USD

Hold'em No Limit - Level XXV (8000/16000) - 2012/06/28 0:12:00 WET [2012/06/27 19:12:00 ET] Table '579010513 108' 9-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: xx303xx (296752 in chips)
Seat 2: Tanyachan (479358 in chips)
Seat 4: irishrep (388798 in chips)
Seat 5: vasyaga (104116 in chips)
Seat 6: ob1wahn (519579 in chips)
Seat 8: himcable (420684 in chips)
Seat 9: yymikeyy (715871 in chips)
xx303xx: posts the ante 1600 Tanyachan: posts the ante 1600 irishrep: posts the ante 1600 vasyaga: posts the ante 1600 ob1wahn: posts the ante 1600 himcable: posts the ante 1600 yymikeyy: posts the ante 1600 Tanyachan: posts small blind 8000 irishrep: posts big blind 16000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to irishrep [Th 4h]
vasyaga: folds ob1wahn: folds
himcable: raises 16000 to 32000
yymikeyy: folds xx303xx: folds
Tanyachan: calls 24000
irishrep: calls 16000

*** FLOP *** [3d Tc Td]

anyachan: checks
irishrep: bets 32000
himcable: raises 48000 to 80000
Tanyachan: folds
irishrep: calls 48000

*** TURN *** [3d Tc Td] [5c]

irishrep: checks
himcable: bets 208000
irishrep: raises 67198 to 275198 and is all-in
himcable: calls 67198

*** RIVER *** [3d Tc Td 5c] [Qc]

*** SHOW DOWN *** irishrep: shows [Th 4h] (three of a kind, Tens) himcable: shows [5h 5d] (a full house, Fives full of Tens) himcable collected 817596 from pot irishrep finished the tournament in 37th place and received $49.31.

I personally think he could have got away from it altogether pre and played it bad in the first place would appreciate your input.

Thanks

 

Originally Posted by 2JL

Why is he calling pre? Yeah it's not that much but wtf is he expecting to hit?
That's a dream flop but how often is he gunna hit that?

What does he think they're raising with... It's not that odd to raise with AT, KT, QT etc... He has a huge kicker issue there.

Why doesn't he raise on the flop to protect his hand from a flush?

And the turn... Well not a lot he can do tehre is there?

Fold pre imho.

wtf is this shit.^^^^

The hero played his hand fine . The flat pre is okay because he is getting such an awesome price and it's a multi way pot so the hero can lead flops he gets a peice of and take control of the pot. As played flatting the raise on the flop is fine because you have an akward stack to 4b and it would scream strength if you had done so. Clearly it's an easy c/s turn from that point on. I think the hero played the hand perfect not much that can be done differently.

lol @ flat pre being fine...what are you hoping to flop with T4. Post flop is good but either jam or fold pre (I wouldn't ever shove this in a 3$ btw)

You're getting about 5 to 1. Folding pre is my preference.

 

Originally Posted by mcandrews3rd

disagree entirely, we are oop without the betting lead with a very marginal hand that is difficult to play in position with the lead let alone in our situation. plus this hh is a perfect example of even when we hit our dream flop we do not always have the best hand anyway and are always stacking off.

played fine post flop

We are in position against one opponent and oop against another. The late position min raise can be super wide and it doesnt demand any respect . If the small blind were to fold then I probably lay this hand down but since the sb calls then the whole hand changes because we are able to lead almost ever flop we hit and the original raiser is less likely to play back because of the small blind still being involved. fwiw when we did hit the dream flop we did have our opponent and horrible shape. I more than comprehend the reasonings for laying this down pre but I think against weaker opponents a good player should feel comfortable playing a wide range post flop especially in a spot where no one can argue that the math isnt there for a call.

I can fold pre, usually i do but in this situation i called pre cos we are fairly deep (all above average stack anyway) and we are near to the larger money so a high number of these players bums go and are not going to play back at me when they brick flops. KJ/AK etc on this board or 44-1010 on boards with paint i am winning a high % of pots

in response to, ''what u gonna hit with 10 4'' at no point was i expecting to call and flop a pair or something better. of course that can happen but is a small % of how im winning pots here

if we was deeper (maybe a slower structure) i would be putting a small 3 bet in pre, but in this spot i cant as i have to jam any flop. so i call with a decent price and key point being aggressor is sandwiched and going to put him to a test on a board that often misses his range when we're near the FT....... and from flop on is not the debate i dont think

but as rungoodmuch rightly states I am takin down a number of pots here with the same line alot of the time so its not a case of calling to hit ever and the ''i like playing people like you'' comment you are thinking i am check folding missed flops? not the case i would rather play abc people who when they are callin in my spot always have KQ/66/87 like you no doubt!

 

Originally Posted by TiltTheBho

I can fold pre, usually i do but in this situation i called pre cos we are fairly deep (all above average stack anyway) and we are near to the larger money so a high number of these players bums go and are not going to play back at me when they brick flops. KJ/AK etc on this board or 44-1010 on boards with paint i am winning a high % of pots

in response to, ''what u gonna hit with 10 4'' at no point was i expecting to call and flop a pair or something better. of course that can happen but is a small % of how im winning pots here

if we was deeper (maybe a slower structure) i would be putting a small 3 bet in pre, but in this spot i cant as i have to jam any flop. so i call with a decent price and key point being aggressor is sandwiched and going to put him to a test on a board that often misses his range when we're near the FT....... and from flop on is not the debate i dont think

but as rungoodmuch rightly states I am takin down a number of pots here with the same line alot of the time so its not a case of calling to hit ever and the ''i like playing people like you'' comment you are thinking i am check folding missed flops? not the case i would rather play abc people who when they are callin in my spot always have KQ/66/87 like you no doubt!

from flop on is not a debate? when u make that small donk bet which looks like a blocking bet ur starting to tell a story. there are bad players out there who just call that flop raise with a flush draw, however, these typa players are easy to spot. since ur a pocketfiver i think i wouldnt mark u as a fish due to very fishy hud stats or anything, so if u call there i know ur not gonna fold anymore. and whatever u have (33-99, a flush draw or Tx) im obv crushed by this range, PLUS the million action killers on turn and river. ur not gonna fold ur hand anyway and look kinda stronger by just calling on the flop, which u dont want to. u want to look as weak as possible. so the story of the flushdraw would be to 3bet shove the flop. u prolly even get a call by AJ+! and obv hands like 55, but even vs JJ there are 12 cards that could kill ur action on the turn, and JJ is the top of villains range, so how much money u lose vs 33-99, JJ-KK and AJ+ if the wrong card comes on the turn and how confortable will u feel if the third diamond comes on the turn (and how confortable will villain feel with aces if a third diamond comes on the turn, i guess it goes c/c and u make a small river value bet and lost money again by not shoving the flop). villain offers u his money on the flop and u dont take it. i mean in this hand villain sucks out on the turn, but how much money do u lose if simply one of all these action killers comes on the turn. this is the biggest leak almost every player has, and it's well hidden so prolly 95% of players wont ever fix that. i do call there pre sometimes vs the right opponents, but on the flop this is just one big leak.