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DEEP STACK Tough Spot 1-2NL... Educated responses please

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  1. pkalevar pkalevar is offline

    Posts: 343
    Joined: Jul 06

    Jul 8th, 2008 (7/8/2008 10:46am)

    I do think I am meant to lose a lot in this hand, but I do not think it is a cooler.

    I play a LAGish style and table rep is as such. Player behind me (deep stack) i saw 3-bet a looser player with A4s. But still seems like a solid player. Guy 2 spots behind me is super donk, i was not concerned with him, i wanted him in the pot if I hit anything whatsoever.

    ***** Hand History for Game 7201955424 *****
    1/2 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Mon Jul 07 19:45:44 EDT 2008
    Table Table 163537 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
    Total number of players : 6
    Seat 1: DeXX_ ( $287.55)
    Seat 2: premkale ( $407.35)
    Seat 3: SickBhoy69 ( $563.70)
    Seat 4: fotspor ( $139.40)
    Seat 5: pdtspa ( $439.74)
    Seat 6: juicy_deuces ( $227.85)
    pdtspa posts small blind (1)
    juicy_deuces posts big blind (2)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to premkale [ Qc, Ad ]
    DeXX_ folds
    premkale raises (7) to 7
    SickBhoy69 raises (18) to 18
    fotspor calls (18)
    pdtspa folds
    juicy_deuces folds
    premkale raises (53) to 60
    SickBhoy69 calls (42)
    fotspor calls (42)
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qs, Ah, Jd ]
    premkale bets (80)
    SickBhoy69 calls (80)
    fotspor folds
    ** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3h ]
    premkale checks
    SickBhoy69 bets (272)
    premkale calls (267.35)
    premkale is all-In.
    ** Dealing River ** : [ 7s ]
    Creating Main Pot with $874.70 with premkale
    ** Summary **
    Main Pot: $874.70 | Rake: $3
    Board: [ Qs Ah Jd 3h 7s ]
    DeXX_ balance $287.55, didn't bet (folded)
    premkale balance $0, lost $407.35 [ Qc Ad ] [ two pairs, Aces and Queens -- Ad,Ah,Qc,Qs,Jd ]
    SickBhoy69 balance $1031.05, bet $412, collected $879.35, net +$467.35 [ Js Jc ] [ three of a kind, Jacks -- Ah,Qs,Js,Jc,Jd ]
    fotspor balance $79.40, lost $60 (folded)
    pdtspa balance $438.74, lost $1 (folded)
    juicy_deuces balance $225.85, lost $2 (folded)

    Reason i repopped his 3 bet was because of the A4s 3bet i saw him make plus the caller behind plus the fact that when playing so deep stacked (in my opinion) you should be 3-betting a little light to induce action when you do have big hands. I am not concerned with my preflop play.

    After much thought I think it was a mistake to bet out the flop, if i had checked, i might have been able to get the donk's money in the hand. As there are very few hands that are calling preflop and I am beating that are calling my flop bet (mainly AK and AJs) as JJ QQ and AA which are crushing me.

    I think the best line to take is check/call flop. Check/fold turn. If he checks behind on turn I'm 50/50 on either a small value bet or check call river if it is a blank.

    Agree/Disagree? Any other thoughts?

    P.S. There is a similar hand at .25-.50 where the guy flopped top two with AK vs JJ. This is definitely a different situation but since i had reviewed it prior to me playing this hand I think it contributed to my flop lead-out.
  2. cassettecounty cassettecounty is offline

    Orlando, FL
    United States

    Posts: 716
    Joined: May 08

    Jul 8th, 2008 (7/8/2008 11:21am) in reply to pkalevar

    Check/fold the turn. His $80 smooth called spelled trouble. He's likely to re-raise there with two pair or A/K and I don't think he'd call $80 for a gutshot.

    I've lost a lot of money three times flopping top two against bottom set. It's hard not to. The first time, I thought dude was on a straight draw (J/10/5) and justified his smooth call that way, then went all-in on the turn when a safe card came out to protect from it.
  3. shady1128 shady1128 is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 602
    Joined: Aug 07

    Jul 8th, 2008 (7/8/2008 11:26am) in reply to pkalevar

    There are very few cards that are going to hit the turn that will change the situation from what it is on the flop so the check/call is probably a good line to take. It's tough that you're OOP in this hand which is the only thing I'd say has a negative effect on your 3bet preflop. I'd stray away from the small value bet on the river if the turn does go check-check. I think it's much more likely you're getting called by a better hand than yours and there are really no hands that you're beating that will call the bet. Of course, that's assuming you're playing with competent players.
  4. pkalevar pkalevar is offline

    Posts: 343
    Joined: Jul 06

    Jul 8th, 2008 (7/8/2008 11:34am) in reply to cassettecounty

    I do think AK, AJs would smooth call flop, but i do agree i had to fold since AA QQ and JJ are much more likely.

    I guess I should have seen the smooth call as more strength then I did. Problem was my check on the turn says: I do not have a straight, AA or QQ, which were the hands he was worried about.
    Thread Starter
  5. pkalevar pkalevar is offline

    Posts: 343
    Joined: Jul 06

    Jul 8th, 2008 (7/8/2008 11:39am) in reply to shady1128

    I do think i'd get value from AK-A2s. with a small value bet (1/5 pot) as well as protecting my hand a little)

    If i check and he shoves what do i do? (read dependent, im sure) I know the same could be said if he shoves on my small value bet, but thats much less likely IMO.
    Thread Starter
  6. cassettecounty cassettecounty is offline

    Orlando, FL
    United States

    Posts: 716
    Joined: May 08

    Jul 8th, 2008 (7/8/2008 11:41am) in reply to pkalevar

    I don't know. Trying to put my head into that hand, I don't think I can just call with two pair on that flop, knowing that in the unlikely event that a 10 peels off on the turn, I have no idea where I am anymore. Although you're right, K/A may very well smooth call since he's got the redraw.

    It's tough to figure out if someone is smooth calling a big bet hoping to draw out, or if they're smooth calling with a huge hand. Tough spot. I feel your pain (and have three times in the past). :)
  7. Willywoo Willywoo is offline

    Colorado Springs, CO
    United States

    Posts: 17,805
    Joined: Jan 06

    Jul 8th, 2008 (7/8/2008 6:02pm) in reply to pkalevar

    3 bet preflop OOP is questionable, but also justifiable against the players as you have described them.

    The flat call of your preflop 3bet and the flat call of your flop bet spell trouble. Does anyone else find that flat calls of three bets often time means a pocket pair of 1010 or better? Given this assumption on my part and then the flat call of your flop bet I slow down on the turn, maybe try a check to see a free river card and hope to hit my A or Q and then make a smallish value bet on the river, say one half the pot, if you don't hit, fold to a reraise.

    Another issue that I see here is that you are sitting to the right of a LAG big stack. Maybe it is just me, but that doesn't seem to be the best choice of seats.
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