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Did I lose this hand ON the flop or PRE?

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  1. DSKekaha DSKekaha is offline

    Puyallup, WA
    United States

    Posts: 583
    Joined: May 07

    Aug 2nd, 2007 (8/2/2007 8:04pm)

    pokerstars Game #11262494100: Tournament #56616752, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVIII (3000/6000) - 2007/08/01 - 22:57:19 (ET) Table '56616752 57' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: xxallthenutz (165780 in chips)
    Seat 2: Young Judder (236192 in chips)
    Seat 3: togl (106616 in chips)
    Seat 4: DS Kekaha (118671 in chips)
    Seat 5: HosniMubarak (191552 in chips)
    Seat 6: iff_friendly (279278 in chips)
    Seat 7: bridgepro1 (333931 in chips)
    Seat 8: LadySusy (132270 in chips)
    Seat 9: luckydice66 (77182 in chips)
    xxallthenutz: posts the ante 600
    Young Judder: posts the ante 600
    togl: posts the ante 600
    DS Kekaha: posts the ante 600
    HosniMubarak: posts the ante 600
    iff_friendly: posts the ante 600
    bridgepro1: posts the ante 600
    LadySusy: posts the ante 600
    luckydice66: posts the ante 600
    Young Judder: posts small blind 3000
    togl: posts big blind 6000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to DS Kekaha [Ah As]
    DS Kekaha: raises 12000 to 18000 <----UTG, don't want to bet too big and chase everyone out HosniMubarak: folds
    iff_friendly: folds
    bridgepro1: calls 18000
    LadySusy: folds
    luckydice66: calls 18000 <---------Pot now 68,400
    xxallthenutz: folds
    Young Judder: folds
    togl: folds
    *** FLOP *** [7c Qc Jc]
    DS Kekaha: bets 36000 <----------Bet too small, giving 1.9:1 odds to chase
    bridgepro1: calls 36000 <----------Pot now 140k
    luckydice66: folds
    *** TURN *** [7c Qc Jc] [8d]
    DS Kekaha: bets 64071 and is all-in <--------giving him incredible odds, with no FE, still praying him on AK or one club......is this just a crying shove?
    bridgepro1: calls 64071 <------------of course. It would be and insta-call even if he only had the 2 and that was the only card he was dealt
    *** RIVER *** [7c Qc Jc 8d] [Td]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    DS Kekaha: shows [Ah As] (a pair of Aces)
    bridgepro1: shows [Ac Kd] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
    bridgepro1 collected 268542 from pot
    LadySusy is sitting out
    luckydice66 said, "areghhh"
    *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 268542 | Rake 0 Board [7c Qc Jc 8d Td]
    Seat 1: xxallthenutz (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Young Judder (small blind) folded before Flop Seat
    3: togl (big blind) folded before Flop Seat
    4: DS Kekaha showed [Ah As] and lost with a pair of Aces Seat
    5: HosniMubarak folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: iff_friendly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: bridgepro1 showed [Ac Kd] and won (268542) with a straight, Ten to Ace
    Seat 8: LadySusy folded before Flop (didn't bet) S
    eat 9: luckydice66 folded on the Flop

    Of course, I was thinking I am representing the exact hand that he had, so there was not much he could call me with that I can't beat. If he put me on TPTK w/nut flush draw (which would be crazy, because unfortunately he already had it), he could only have something like KQ or AK. I think a PP would have reraised pre.

    I think that if I raised more pre, he's still calling, and with that flop he is going to go all the way with it.

    Let's say I was new to the table, or I was heating up some borscht in the kitchen. Either way, I have no reads on the villain. I think that with his relatively huge chip advantage, a larger bet on the flop, or even a shove, would have been called. I don't think check-fold is ever a very good move, but a flop bet to see where you're at doesnt work when villain flat calls IP.

    I know it's possible I could have lost less by checking the turn, and calling a value bet on the river. Was that the right COA? or am I just a fish?
  2. saukendar saukendar is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,235
    Joined: Mar 07

    Aug 2nd, 2007 (8/2/2007 8:58pm) in reply to DSKekaha

    I don't think you are going to get him off the hand no matter what you do pre, flop or turn.

    I supose that given you small raise pre, you could have shut down on the flop and released the hand (I have major trouble releasing AA).

    I expect that if you push pre he calls with AK and runs you down.

    Looks like a cooler to me.

    my 2 cents

    Edit:
    slow play AA = slow death
    I can't count the times this has cost me, I almost always hit em hard or limp em in front of a LAG if I'm fairly sure I'll get raised.
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