Did i play this bad?? Or what was my best play here against chipsteela in the 80k?

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  1. foolishgolf foolishgolf is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:11am)

    Ok we are both deep stacked in the 80k on UB. with 90ish or so players left. And this hand comes up. What is the best play here and why? Am i commited to the pot here? Is there any way i can fold? Or Do you think my 4 bet reraise was bad here? Ive played against Chipsteela many times and know he is a solid agressive player capiple of 3 and 4 betting weak. ( Ill submit the full hand history later) would like a few ideas on this hand.
    Thanks

    Stage #1928184603 Tourney ID 4709101 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 400 - 2009-10-07 21:54:50 (ET)
    Table: 42 (Real Money) Seat #8 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - CHIPSTEELA (24,403 in chips)
    Seat 3 - PISCATO77 (20,964 in chips)
    Seat 4 - DMON2323 (9,937 in chips)
    Seat 5 - HOTSHOT80 (7,405 in chips)
    Seat 7 - FOOLISHGOLF (27,760 in chips)
    Seat 8 - SCOTTYDOG25 (4,671 in chips)
    Seat 9 - 6XSHOOTER (10,041 in chips)
    CHIPSTEELA - Ante 50
    PISCATO77 - Ante 50
    DMON2323 - Ante 50
    HOTSHOT80 - Ante 50
    FOOLISHGOLF - Ante 50
    SCOTTYDOG25 - Ante 50
    6XSHOOTER - Ante 50
    6XSHOOTER - Posts small blind 200
    CHIPSTEELA - Posts big blind 400
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to FOOLISHGOLF [Ac Qd]
    PISCATO77 - Folds
    DMON2323 - Folds
    HOTSHOT80 - Folds
    FOOLISHGOLF - Raises 1,000 to 1,000
    SCOTTYDOG25 - Folds
    6XSHOOTER - Folds
    CHIPSTEELA - Raises 2,545 to 2,945
    FOOLISHGOLF - Raises 6,890 to 7,890
    CHIPSTEELA - All-In(Raise) 21,408 to 24,353
  2. anticure anticure is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:13am) in reply to foolishgolf

    doubt im ever folding here getting 2-1...i wouldnt 4bet if im not callin
     
  3. rainmanrcp rainmanrcp is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:20am) in reply to anticure

    I might 3 bet fold there, I think your dominated here or a 3:1 dog more often than your flipping. Definitely find a better spot with 50 BB behind
  4. Cmoney3 Cmoney3 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:29am) in reply to rainmanrcp

    nitsteela
  5. foolishgolf foolishgolf is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:29am) in reply to rainmanrcp

     
    Originally Posted by rainmanrcp View Post

    I might 3 bet fold there, I think your dominated here or a 3:1 dog more often than your flipping. Definitely find a better spot with 50 BB behind

    I mean i think it is obvious he has to have a hand. There is no way he is 5 bet jamming here without a monster. But if Im going to reraise to 8k i have the intintion of calling if he jams i just have an extreemly hard time putting in over 1/3 of my stack and folding. I guess if you know 95% of the time you are drawing pretty slim then i should probbaly fold. I mean whats the worst hand he shows up with here? AK maybe JJ? Just a tough spot. Against a normal random i call the reraise in pos and play accordingly. Was playing the player here and got caught in a bad situation.
    Thread Starter
  6. rainmanrcp rainmanrcp is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:34am) in reply to foolishgolf

    Yeah unlucky, I do like your 4 bet if you say hes been 3 betting lightly; I think the lower part of his range is JJ here, but I think AK, KK, AA are also in that range so fold to this more than often. I do like your play though given the read.
  7. RazorFish00 RazorFish00 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:38am) in reply to rainmanrcp

     
    Originally Posted by rainmanrcp View Post

    Yeah unlucky, I do like your 4 bet if you say hes been 3 betting lightly; I think the lower part of his range is JJ here, but I think AK, KK, AA are also in that range so fold to this more than often.* I do like your play though*given the read.

    I agree with this

    I also think that you should have flat called since you did have a strong hand hope to catch a decent flop and then let him hang himself by firing cause you know he will be firing almost any flop after 3 betting you and it is like A K if you don't like what you see on the flop your not stuck holding your hand post flop
  8. Appst08 Appst08 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 1:41am) in reply to RazorFish00

    doubt im 4-bet folding in this spot.

    other spots yes,
    not this spot. Don't 4-bet if u don't have a plan when he 5-bets
     
  9. Defndrofangels Defndrofangels is offline one lazy ass virgin mofo

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 2:00am) in reply to Appst08

    Ur getting a little over 2:1 16k to call to try and win 32k+. I think you have to call. and bink the Q or the A.
  10. pikappraider78 pikappraider78 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 2:54am) in reply to Defndrofangels

    id prolly flat cuz we have pos and 4bet folding sucks and 4b calling is meh most of the time
     
  11. djkelly69 djkelly69 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 3:03am) in reply to pikappraider78

     
    Originally Posted by pikappraider78 View Post

    id prolly flat cuz we have pos and 4bet folding sucks and 4b calling is meh most of the time

    +1.
    also his bet sizing seems really strong given he will be OOP and you raised from MP.
  12. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 3:31am) in reply to foolishgolf

    your 4bet/call was aweful against his 5bet shoving range, and 4bet/folding would be even worst.

    Either flat the 3bet or just fold depending on your opening range from that spot.

    Think of it this way if he never 5bet shove u light. Then you are basically risking 24k to win the 3bet pot which is about 5.5k. At best u fold jj,

    he's not folding ak,qq's at 60bb
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  13. rivverkiller rivverkiller is online now

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 3:35am) in reply to darkhawk-200

    Flat pre for sure.
     
  14. JBT449 JBT449 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 5:04am) in reply to foolishgolf

    If you guys dont have a dynamic where you could potentially induce a light 5 bet from him then this is just burning money. Also your sizing pre is going to narrow his range even more since he definitely isnt going to assume your folding after putting a third of your stack in pre. You're crushed here unless you guys have some absurd history which I really doubt. Like people said, just flat... really no need to turn AQ into a bluff, and instead play vs his whole 3 betting range preflop.
    375 
  15. rivverkiller rivverkiller is online now

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 5:17am) in reply to JBT449

     
    Originally Posted by JBT449 View Post

    If you guys dont have a dynamic where you could potentially induce a light 5 bet from him then this is just burning money. Also your sizing pre is going to narrow his range even more since he definitely isnt going to assume your folding after putting a third of your stack in pre. You're crushed here unless you guys have some absurd history which I really doubt. Like people said, just flat... really no need to turn AQ into a bluff, and instead play vs his whole 3 betting range preflop.

    ^^^
     
  16. IbizaCF3 IbizaCF3 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 5:24am) in reply to foolishgolf

    My std comment every Chipsteela post:

    He has KQo and you lose anyway.

    My real post:

    flat his 3 bet and reevaluate. You're only good to his shove here like 3% of the time.
  17. witcher1984 witcher1984 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 5:25am) in reply to foolishgolf

    pretty much flatting here a ton, esp with his bet sizing and him being oop and making it >3x... never 4 betting with out some history or dynamic knowing he'd 5 ball worse, any hand he is 3 betting here that u beat u are losing value from post flop and i rly think his bet sizing is pretty fn strong... just imo

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  18. JDsmith9 JDsmith9 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 6:00am) in reply to foolishgolf

    i do like a flat here, although tbh given the dynamic its possible that 4b/get it in is optimal...

    how does it feel to know that chipsteela's 88 beat my A10 3 handed in this and i think went on to win? lol

    so i'm assuming u called and he had AK or something
     
  19. witcher1984 witcher1984 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 6:04am) in reply to JDsmith9

     
    Originally Posted by JDsmith9 View Post

    i do like a flat here, although tbh given the dynamic its possible that 4b/get it in is optimal...

    how does it feel to know that chipsteela's 88 beat my A10 3 handed in this and i think went on to win? lol

    so i'm assuming u called and he had AK or something

    yea with history...
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  20. IbizaCF3 IbizaCF3 is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 6:08am) in reply to JDsmith9

    Yeah so if he continually plays 88 in this tourney, AQ isn't really a hand he should be desperate with unnecessarily.

    But yeah, I seriously doubt he's super light here like some people suggest he might be. Wish my laptop worked the right way when it's not hooked up to a monitor so I could find out :)
  21. foolishgolf foolishgolf is offline

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    Oct 8th, 2009 (10/8/2009 9:46am) in reply to JDsmith9

     
    Originally Posted by JDsmith9 View Post

    i do like a flat here, although tbh given the dynamic its possible that 4b/get it in is optimal...

    how does it feel to know that chipsteela's 88 beat my A10 3 handed in this and i think went on to win? lol

    so i'm assuming u called and he had AK or something

    Here is the rest of the hand. Knowing i was drawing pretty slim I felt folding was terrible and felt that I had to call. And actually wiffed Quite a few outs. Anyways thanks for the advise. Here is the rest of the hand.

    Stage #1928184603 Tourney ID 4709101 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 400 - 2009-10-07 21:54:50 (ET)
    Table: 42 (Real Money) Seat #8 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - CHIPSTEELA (24,403 in chips)
    Seat 3 - PISCATO77 (20,964 in chips)
    Seat 4 - DMON2323 (9,937 in chips)
    Seat 5 - HOTSHOT80 (7,405 in chips)
    Seat 7 - FOOLISHGOLF (27,760 in chips)
    Seat 8 - SCOTTYDOG25 (4,671 in chips)
    Seat 9 - 6XSHOOTER (10,041 in chips)
    CHIPSTEELA - Ante 50
    PISCATO77 - Ante 50
    DMON2323 - Ante 50
    HOTSHOT80 - Ante 50
    FOOLISHGOLF - Ante 50
    SCOTTYDOG25 - Ante 50
    6XSHOOTER - Ante 50
    6XSHOOTER - Posts small blind 200
    CHIPSTEELA - Posts big blind 400
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to FOOLISHGOLF [Ac Qd]
    PISCATO77 - Folds
    DMON2323 - Folds
    HOTSHOT80 - Folds
    FOOLISHGOLF - Raises 1,000 to 1,000
    SCOTTYDOG25 - Folds
    6XSHOOTER - Folds
    CHIPSTEELA - Raises 2,545 to 2,945
    FOOLISHGOLF - Raises 6,890 to 7,890
    CHIPSTEELA - All-In(Raise) 21,408 to 24,353
    FOOLISHGOLF - Calls 16,463
    *** FLOP *** [10d Jc 8c]
    *** TURN *** [10d Jc 8c] [Jh]
    *** RIVER *** [10d Jc 8c Jh] [5d]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    CHIPSTEELA - Shows [Kd Kc] (Two Pair, kings and jacks)
    FOOLISHGOLF - Shows [Ac Qd] (One pair, jacks)
    CHIPSTEELA Collects 49,256 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total Pot(49,256)
    Board [10d Jc 8c Jh 5d]
    Seat 1: CHIPSTEELA (big blind) won Total (49,256) All-In HI:(49,256) with Two Pair, kings and jacks [Kd Kc - P:Kd,P:Kc,B:Jh,B:Jc,B:10d]
    Seat 3: PISCATO77 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 4: DMON2323 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 5: HOTSHOT80 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 7: FOOLISHGOLF HI:lost with One pair, jacks [Ac Qd - B:Jh,B:Jc,P:Ac,P:Qd,B:10d]
    Seat 8: SCOTTYDOG25 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Seat 9: 6XSHOOTER (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
    Thread Starter
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