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Difficult hand from 3 tables left in $2k NL WSOP

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  1. worldsgrtest worldsgrtest is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 1:29pm)

    So just the other day I was playing in the 2k nl event at the wsop when a very hard spot came up. There were 25 players left and I was about 3rd in chips. I had about 480k to start the hand at 4k 8k blinds with antes, so i was pretty deep stacked at this point. The chipleader (zeejustin) was two to my right. Anyway the hand plays out like this. I had just been moved to a new table for the 27 player redraw so I didnt know anyone but ZJ at the time. UTG limps in and before I look at my cards I ask him his stack- approx 450k. ZJ then limps in behind him with just over 500k, and I am on the button, and obviously squeeze two black Kings. I jam the pot to like 38k. It folds back to the UTG limper who thinks for a while, counts out a call, and then stops and thinks for about a minute. He then annoucnes all in. ZJ fds quick and its back to me...WTF DO I DO??????? I have absolutely zero info on the player- i know most people say never to fd KK preflop but F them...is this the right time to do that? Should I call and gamble and pray that KK is good? If it is im going to have a GIANT stack, which is good, but I still dont think I will be able to abuse ZJ like I would any other player who would have a big stack to my right. Ill post results of the hand later- but I really dont know what the right play here is. Thanks

    Mike Banducci
     11
  2. VVubanga VVubanga is offline

    Arlington, VA
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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 1:36pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    wow very tough spot here i would have a hard time laying them down but this is one time that i think u can seriously make this fold, the utg limp smells of aa or qq, if he has qq he might make this play thinkiing u are just tryin to abuse the limpers. i think u folded, i think i call here, gotta have the balls to go for the win and u win this pot ...its on. very interested in the results and how u finished. gl i should be there for a couple events next week.
  3. supermoves supermoves is offline invented poker

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 1:42pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    You make it 38K, your opponant moves in for 420k more and you think he has AA? I call there every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Call, Call, Call.....oh..did I say call? My thought is that at BEST he has QQ or JJ. He probably has AK.
    1
  4. bluechip2000 bluechip2000 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 1:47pm) in reply to supermoves

    since this is live poker.....is the person an Old, young , male female, white, asian?? calm confident? nervous? nice clothes? looks like a bum? any info?
  5. NetFan44 NetFan44 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 1:54pm) in reply to supermoves

    you'be surprised how often he actually DOES have AA here
    that being said i call anyway ZJ is one of the best and the leverage you would have with a monster stack would be huge...and the fact that the limp-reraiser could have JJ/QQ/AK makes this a definite call
  6. aaronbeen aaronbeen is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 2:00pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    Hahahaha the old fake call move. The original post doesn't include the important information to consider so I don't think this thread will have too much useful discussion. You need to get everything you can from looking at the guy. There are nits this is an instamuck against but there are also idiots at the WSOP that thing qq and even jj are the nuts preflop.
    452 1
  7. bzat4 bzat4 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 2:01pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    Obviously you both had KK, you folded and said what you folded, he flipped the same hand you felt silly. GG you.
  8. Hawkhill7 Hawkhill7 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 2:04pm) in reply to NetFan44

    Wow!

    Even though the utg limper jammed all-in and it seems unlikely that the average player wouldn't do that w/ AA, I think he has AA (or KK) more often than not. I guess AK and QQ are possible but I just don't see the average player (minus any info) limping utg here with those hands. There are always exceptions though, so I'd have to try to make some uniformed generalization about the guy by looking at him (young, old, well groomed, online player, oriental, man, woman, etc.)

    Honestly don't know what I'd do, but I'd be more lilkely to call if I had any reason to believe that he was capable of sniffing out and being suspicious of a squeeze play, or was a total maniac.

    I can talk myself into calling but without any info I'd have to muck and think this is AA more often than not.
     
  9. allinstevie allinstevie is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 2:06pm) in reply to bzat4

    ugly spot but still a call for me, can get a huge stack here if hes making this move with j/j or q/q
     
  10. tiltyjoker tiltyjoker is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 2:30pm) in reply to allinstevie

    plus ur gonna suck out on AA 1 out of every 5 times..... ;p ohhh and hopefuly gbmantis doesnt see this post; he gets pretty passioinate about ppl foldin kk pre
     
  11. JJDude JJDude is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 2:53pm) in reply to tiltyjoker

    You did come in 5th place... so what's the verdict on that particular hand?
     
  12. indyballin indyballin is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 4:27pm) in reply to JJDude

    Asking hima t the begining might have been key. Ill say qq or ak
  13. ChiefJustis ChiefJustis is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 5:00pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    I call.

    As I expect you did, and lost to AK.

    J
  14. Bigchip79 Bigchip79 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 5:18pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    Wow! what a difficult situation. How did he sound when you asked him how much he has left. Was he happy that you might make a move on him or was he not so interested. I can't see how u can lay down KK here. If he has AA so be it. but this is a MUST CALL
  15. CallMeNoName CallMeNoName is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 5:38pm) in reply to Bigchip79

    You fold. He smiles so hard that he throws the cards across the table and paper cuts the dealer. He than proceeds to show the 64ss.

    GG
  16. TheWatchMan TheWatchMan is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 6:28pm) in reply to CallMeNoName

    i fold. with no info and the fake call, i have to give him credit for AA
  17. jalman1 jalman1 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 6:47pm) in reply to TheWatchMan

    *Brag Post about making the money at WSOP*
    107 3
  18. aholthaus33 aholthaus33 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 7:12pm) in reply to supermoves

    I think only the biggest old-man nit could have AA here.......... Like supermoves said, who is going to shove in 400K more after you make it 38k? I think only an old nit?

    I can't fold here though I don't think..........
  19. Juice322 Juice322 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 7:14pm) in reply to jalman1

    To me it looks like he doesn't want to play a flop against two CL's OOP and a he is caught with having lots of room to work with having 50+ BB's. With no info I'm sure I'd make this call cuz I suck but it would sure be a great setup if he had AA. I think AA is a small possiblility here, but I think it a better chance of QQ, JJ, TT?, AK?, and KK. I do know if I did that UTG I am never showing or telling anyone what I just limp re-raised 50 BB's with.

    Good score BTW!
  20. d2themfi d2themfi is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 7:26pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    ur so deep stacked that I think this is a fold, even if it is +chipEV. You have position on the other two chip leaders, and you obv have some skill to make it that deep, so fold and use ur positional advantage later. Remember chips always flow clockwise around the table
     
  21. jbay jbay is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 8:48pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    Mike,

    It's time you fulfilled your promise: Results???????????
  22. four6suited four6suited is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 9:31pm) in reply to jbay

    u r the man... great job
  23. tcdmb36 tcdmb36 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 9:42pm) in reply to four6suited

    jj...maybe AQ AK CALL
  24. tbt4653 tbt4653 is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 9:48pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    Not knowing anything else, I would fold. The old "the raise is so big, he doesn't want a call" is easily exploited and people often make huge bets with huge hands hoping to look weak. Plus counting out the call and then raising to more than 10X your raise seems like such an acting job. You're in great shape if you don't make this call.

    By the way, Mike, if you're willing to fold KK preflop, which I assume you did in this situation, I'll be reraising you even more than I did before. :)

    I'll see you at the 5K tomorrow, hopefully same final table as the 2K.

    - Todd
     
  25. mahgnislaw mahgnislaw is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 10:12pm) in reply to tbt4653

    <TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">knowing nothing else I fold you got plenty of chips. This is where you have to try to get some information. I'm trying everything to get him talking and find the tell. But if he is a clam I think you have to fold.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  26. gbmantis gbmantis is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 10:36pm) in reply to mahgnislaw

    folding kk is always wrong, but i just cant see it being wrong here.......
    1
  27. worldsgrtest worldsgrtest is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 10:42pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    Ok, so first, the dude was an older guy, but like i said i had absolutely no info on him. I sat there for about 5-10 minutes and finally mucked the hand, with a few thoughts in mind. One, I figured I was the 2nd best player left in the tournament...I didnt really think that the advantage of having 1M was as big as the fact that I could lose my tourney life here....The only other big stack at the table was ZJ and i didnt really think that me having a big stack would affect the way he would play vs me-- i didtn see myself being able to really push him around too much....so anyway i mucked and he didnt show- i have no idea what he had - but looking back im not upset about the fold, but i always wonder how the tourney would have gone if i woulda called.....oh well, 5th was okay

    worldsgrtest
     11
    Thread Starter
  28. Slow Cheetah Slow Cheetah is offline

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    Jun 12th, 2007 (6/12/2007 10:46pm) in reply to worldsgrtest

    such a sick spot to be in. i guess all you can do is stare at him and unless he shows you something, take a deep breathe and fold em. face up/face down is another discussion. I'd say fold them face down b/c you don't want people thinking they can run you over.
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