I was playing a $5 sit and go the other day and got to the heads up stage at which point the other player got disconnected so i kept stealing his blinds and by the time he had reconnected he was seriously shortstacked. He got quite upset and told me i should have waited for him to reconnect. What is the correct etiquette in these situations?
If you feel guilty, ship him his fin back.
Normally, I give 5 minutes, and I alternate between waiting for a few seconds left and then taking the blind and actually calling from the big blind (assuming it's a hand I would call from the BB), and then taking it on the flop.
After 5 minutes, if they aren't back (or they have low enough money that they likely won't come back) then I play. I know you are under no obligation to wait for the other person (and most people don't), but I always feel bad about stealing the game. I'd rather try to win it fair and finish 2nd than win it by blinding the person out (though, whenever I disconnect, everyone always mercellessly steals from me).
Once, I actually offered to throw a hand to the person to give them some of their money back. I told the person that I'd raise, they could reraise and I'd fold, but they couldn't understand it. I figured it wasn't chip dumping since it was HU at that point.
This obviously only effects HU. If it isn't HU, I just ignore and steal from the person.
I'll let the time run down to a few seconds for a couple of minutes which is usually enough time to reconnect. If they don't come back after that, I'll start to take it all. If they manage to come back after 5 minutes and get pissed at me...so be it. I don't have all day to sit back and be a nice guy.
Surprisingly often when this has happened to me where a guy I am headsup with get disconnected, he has been a prick to me and everyone else,and then I instal steal as much as I can. I will usually wait for sometime (usually my timebank) untill I start stealing slowly.
There is no etiquette for this situation.
Steal, and do so quickly.
Failure to do so results in a -ev situation for you, as most opponents would do the same.
Only time I wouldn't do this is if I was 100% sure opponent wouldn't do same.
if jennifear says it, it's got to make some sense. :)
i'm just glad someone put how i feel about it so well.
I Disagree 100%!
In a small game, waiting 5 mins is about right by stalling and then calling or sitting out.
In a Big $ game, waiting up to 10 mins if possible is appropriate.
At the FT of a tournament, I would recommend a chip equity chop.
This is obviously a personal decision and I am not passing judgement on anybody. This is just what I do and have done in each of these scenarios.
I agree, in a SNG steal is probably the right move...
Anyone that railed the UB 200k a couple weeks back will remember when it got down to heads up, the chip leader got disconnected for about 10-15 minutes. The other player took as much time as he could on each hand until the CL reconnected, and that was for about $20k. Of course he went on to loose, but he did show some respect in waiting.
I should state that I wish it wasn't this way, but I think that those of us that would do the "honorable thing", probably lose money with this play, because most of our opponents will not.
I wish that the sites would give a heads up opponent a reasonable time to reconnect, without blind increases so that this wasn't an issue.
No, I am not saying that supermoves. (Sry Supermoves, I missed the HU part, that would fall under the 10 minute rule or a refund depending on if it just started etc...I would be fair to you if we were playing and you got disco'd)
I prefer to beat someone in a fair competition vs taking advantage of someone's misfortune for a quick buck.
I am just telling you what I will do. Additionally, if you remember the HU matches we played last year, they didn't last long enough for us to worry about someone going disconnect.
I agree with Jennifear about the sites giving an appropriate amount of time to a disco'd player. Additionally, she is also correct that it is a -EV situation to wait. All that being said, I prefer to wait.
I recommended the chip equity chop for the MTT situation when down to HU and someone is disco'd.
I could see where you might do this in just a HU sng, but not normally. The 5 or 10 minute rule that I use is fair IMO for these HU sngs.
Ahhh I got ya...thanks for clearing that up :-) And yes, heads up matches (especially with me) usually dont last very long.
I guess the money is a big factor for me. If I was playing a $5 match, Im not going to sit around and wait for someone to come back, if I am playing a $100 heads up match, Id be more likley to wait....
I'll add something from experience here as most players probably don't disconnect that often. I have dialup and live in an area where its actually the quality of the phone lines that is the problem, not the provider. So I disconnect often. I can usually get back quickly, but then only stay for a short while then disconnect again. On the first disconnect, nobody ever affords me the courtesy of coming back (nor any other time), so I'd say the overwhelming majority of players will blind you quickly.
That being said, it doesn't make sense that you should expect anyone to wait for you, so why wait for them? So as mentioned above, yes if you knew the player and figured they would do the same then ok, thats a personal decision but I don't think it falls under proper poker etiquitte. I've had the power go out and similar disconnects in big buy in tournaments (over $200) to the point where I've had to make arrangements to play those bigger tournaments at a relatives house in town. So for me to get upset about it or blame anybody else for not waiting is really inappropriate because it's nobodys fault but my own.
I've also been in tournaments where somebody has had a buddy or someone they play with often disconnect at a full table and they time out themselves until they return, and sometimes that's a very long time if ever, and I think that's rude to the entire table because now the other players are being robbed of a number of hands (since all other tables are playing regularly) that puts them at a disadvantage in the tournament.
If I'm playing someone heads up online and they disconnect, they are getting blinded down as fast as possible until they bust or return. It's like a tax on them playing online without a good interenet connection.
I usually use my full 15 seconds to act then take their blinds. If its someone I know, I use my whole time bank and stall as much as possible. I still take their blinds when I have not enough time to act but usually they reconnect in time
there is no etiquette as far as I am concerned. That is a risk you take when you play online poker. It as happened to me, as I am sure it has happened to others. You just have to deal with it. I steal the blinds every time and I don't feel guilty, nor should I.
First, in this case it was $5. Wanna be a dick for $5, go ahead. That kinda stuff will get you noticed and "tagged".
The 20k guy did the right thing. You want to win honorably. Guy could have been in a power outage. Kudos to trhe 20k guy.
Their is always etiqutte.
If I know the player, or have played with them a bunch, I'll wait...
But if he was stealing my blinds earlier in the game, it's gg him.
I would like it to be this way...
but let's not confuse this as being a "dick". I am a very honorable player who does this because I expect it to go both ways.
There is no dishonor in doing this. If you win this way, you are winning fair and square.
Anyone who "tags" you for such a maneuver is foolish, because you should not have to give up this opportunity to someone who won't do the same for you.
I've been on the other end, and trust me... 99% of the time, they are blinding your ass out. I think 99% is a conservative estimate.
But I agree with you on one thing:
Kudos to the 20k guy.
Play the game fair. If you take advantage of his disconnect HU then you are a turd.
What I fail to see is how it's unfair to blind out the other guy when he would almost always do the same to you.
If I know them/play with them alot, i will really try to wait as long as humanly possible for them to reconnect. I feel they would try and do the same for me
but if i dont know them, i would be stealing their blinds as quicky as humanly possible. Hate on me if you want, but just being honest...
Fair......, I am blinding your ass out. It is funny, I have changed the settings to auto muck to take advantage of the situation. I have never played against an someone who waited on me to reconnect. Who has time to wait?
This has happened to me prob 5 times and i have waited EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!! I only play $20,$30 SNG or a few multi's, but I don't personally give a shit what they would have "done" to me as right is right and WRONG IS WRONG IMHO!!!!! To be honest with you I believe that a large % of people would (and have) blind my ass out. Dont get me wrong you can not wait all night, but what is 5-10 minutes?
Just my O
I dunno what I'd do.............never been HU. LOL
everytime i got dc'd....they jacked my blinds everytime, so when i am given the opportunity i do the same...though i used to wait until 1 time i was not returned the favor from the same person so i proceeded to never do someone the favor of waiting ever again.
5-10 minutes is 5-10 minutes more than are giving you.
This is not a case of right and wrong.
It is honorable play to blind out your opponent. As long as you expect the same, it's fair.
Look, I'm no asshole. If my opponent is a person I know I can trust, or someone who did the same for me, I wouldn't blind them out. Also, if my opponent says he is having connection problems, I would tell him ahead that I won't blind him out if he loses connection, as long as he agrees to do the same for me.
I hate that this possibility exists. The sites have the power to prevent this, and they choose not to use that power.
Giving a courtesy that will likely not also be extended to you, is just a money losing proposition. You should not assume the liability.
Here's my point:
Say you are in 100 situations like this against players of equal ability and connection. We will say $100 heads up for argumant's sake.
In the 50 situations you disconnect, you will be blinded out about 48 times. The other two times you actually found a courteous opponent, you will win once.
This makes for 1-49.
In the 50 situations they disconnect, if you don't steal, they will not be blinded out, and both parties will win an equal amount of games.
This makes for 25-25.
A total of 26-74 instead of 50-50, because you just gave up 24 games. This move cost you $2400 in this example.
If you are in the forest and are facing a lion, do you assume they won't attack, or do you shoot first? If you don't shoot, the lion is going to eat you.
Never played at a high stakes MTT but if this happened to me where there is big $'s on the line I would wait. A 5 dollar SNG I would wait a few minutes more than enough time to get back on then I am stealing blinds I got better things to do.