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Do I have to? Every time?

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  1. Neek Neek is offline

    Boca Raton, FL
    United States

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    Joined: Oct 06

    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 3:13am)

    The 3 bettor's numbers are like 9/7 and the 4 bettor's numbers are 6/6. Both are obviously tight players. I know never fold KK preflop, right? I mean I have a nice stack, the players are fairly weak and it's been a breeze chipping up.

    pokerstars Game #45654476953: Tournament #316010874, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2010/06/17 22:07:12 ET
    Table '316010874 4' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: Amoekli (5744 in chips)
    Seat 2: Ranger Neil (27615 in chips)
    Seat 3: aces_up4108 (34468 in chips)
    Seat 4: DESS66 (44458 in chips)
    Seat 5: Neek555 (46238 in chips)
    Seat 6: Cheese0821 (44446 in chips)
    Seat 7: 628steve (41660 in chips)
    Seat 8: gyndok (17192 in chips)
    Seat 9: splimgh (23251 in chips)
    Amoekli: posts the ante 50
    Ranger Neil: posts the ante 50
    aces_up4108: posts the ante 50
    DESS66: posts the ante 50
    Neek555: posts the ante 50
    Cheese0821: posts the ante 50
    628steve: posts the ante 50
    gyndok: posts the ante 50
    splimgh: posts the ante 50
    Neek555: posts small blind 300
    Cheese0821: posts big blind 600
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Neek555 [Kc Kd]
    628steve: folds
    gyndok: folds
    splimgh: folds
    Amoekli: raises 855 to 1455
    Ranger Neil: raises 2745 to 4200
    aces_up4108: raises 30218 to 34418 and is all-in
    DESS66: folds
    Neek555: ?????
    Edited By: Neek Jun 18th, 2010 at 03:14 AM
     
  2. 8ntmuch 8ntmuch is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 3:28am) in reply to Neek

    That is pretty dirty spot. I think its a gut call/muck. But I'm waaaay to bad of a player to fold. I think I get it all in almost every time here unless I just have some weird feeling. I think I'm more worried about Ranger here then the other 2. Even if we call and lose we still have chips and if they've been easy to come by like you stated then I for sure call and go for the win.
  3. poisoneye1986 poisoneye1986 is offline

    Cincinnati, OH
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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 3:32am) in reply to 8ntmuch

    even if the the 4bet is as tight as QQ+ you still gotta get it in here. imean hes not just gonna fold QQ to a single 3 bet. even if he is the nittiest of nits you gotta put AKs in the range some % of the time. ur definitly well ahead of the 3 bet.
  4. Zunga Zunga is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 4:06am) in reply to poisoneye1986

    Never fold here. Only hand that crushes you is AA. Nits will play AK QQ/JJ like that, and you are playing in $10 games too so could be a someone trying to rep a hand after not playing for a while.
  5. Neek Neek is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 4:08am) in reply to Zunga

    Well it's actually a 10 1R/A so it's a 30 dollar tournament, not that it changes much.
     
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  6. Zunga Zunga is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 4:24am) in reply to Neek

    If it's a rebuy that just means you should NEVER EVER fold in that spot, haha.

    My biggest cash is $1,500 so im no pro, but i would never fold there. Cheers.
  7. Infaulable Infaulable is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 5:41am) in reply to Neek

    no shame in folding here, you could be up against as weak a hand as A,6 but a ace hits the flop and your done, bye-bye to sweet stack and this raise is most def a coin flip at best. There is so much to be made safely by outplaying opponents post-flop when the blinds and antes reach these levels by stealing and staying away from coin-flips preflop. This is a easy fold preflop for this size bet. Only you know what you laid down
  8. mdshack14 mdshack14 is offline

    Auburn Hills, MI
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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 5:44am) in reply to Infaulable

    Yeah.......pretty sure I'm not folding KK here.
    Edited By: mdshack14 Jun 18th, 2010 at 05:45 AM
    Reason: Just read to post above me..........WTF???
     
  9. threeven threeven is offline

    Tucson, AZ
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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 5:44am) in reply to Zunga

     
    Originally Posted by Zunga View Post

    If it's a rebuy that just means you should NEVER EVER fold in that spot, haha.

    What does it being a rebuy have to do with anything? The rebuy period is long over
    2
  10. trist23 trist23 is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 6:53am) in reply to threeven

    Never ever fold....AK is a massive part of his range, as is QQ-JJ....I agree AA is part of it as well, but I would never consider dumping KK here....most times you will be a 3-1 or 4-1 fav
     
  11. JoeDeertay JoeDeertay is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 4:41pm) in reply to trist23

    Your edge is way too huge here even against the tightest of nits to be folding. If you run into aces then it just sucks but nbd.

     
    Originally Posted by Infaulable View Post

    no shame in folding here, you could be up against as weak a hand as A,6 but a ace hits the flop and your done, bye-bye to sweet stack and this raise is most def a coin flip at best. There is so much to be made safely by outplaying opponents post-flop when the blinds and antes reach these levels by stealing and staying away from coin-flips preflop. This is a easy fold preflop for this size bet. Only you know what you laid down

    lol @ flipping with KK
     
  12. ApesAreFun ApesAreFun is offline Moderator/Euro Donk

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 4:54pm) in reply to Infaulable

     
    Originally Posted by Infaulable View Post

    no shame in folding here, you could be up against as weak a hand as A,6 but a ace hits the flop and your done, bye-bye to sweet stack and this raise is most def a coin flip at best. There is so much to be made safely by outplaying opponents post-flop when the blinds and antes reach these levels by stealing and staying away from coin-flips preflop. This is a easy fold preflop for this size bet. Only you know what you laid down

    Heh, nice level?

    Anyways, dont fold this.
     906 
  13. rebelfd rebelfd is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 5:12pm) in reply to ApesAreFun

    I'm calling, and probably see the 3 bettor fold and 4 bettor's range is 10-10+, he may have a read on the 3 bettor that you didn't, if he has AA it's a cooler, but I can't imagine folding here is +EV.
    Edited By: rebelfd Jun 18th, 2010 at 05:13 PM
  14. m_hawk_1 m_hawk_1 is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 5:23pm) in reply to rebelfd

    Infaulable is my new favourite level account.
    471 
  15. okse54 okse54 is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 6:29pm) in reply to m_hawk_1

     
    Originally Posted by m_hawk_1 View Post

    Infaulable is my new favourite level account.

    +1
     
  16. 4Aces1King1 4Aces1King1 is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 6:30pm) in reply to okse54

    Go for the win, get your chips in, did you get coolered?
  17. revolvingiris revolvingiris is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 6:45pm) in reply to 4Aces1King1

    Just because their stats are like that doesn't mean they are in reality that tight. Like profits have variance the hands you are dealt have variance as well. One or both of them could have been card dead and its really hard to say how clear the stats are unless you have a large sample...Unless they have both been passive this entire tourney (shown down TPGK and just c/c) I am getting it in.
  18. Neek Neek is offline

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    Jun 18th, 2010 (6/18/2010 9:52pm) in reply to revolvingiris

    Well to finish the story I did end up folding just because I do call in similar spots every time and run into AA every time. So I wanted to mix up my game (lol). The 4 bettor did have AA not that it matters.
     
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  19. mattdb9er mattdb9er is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 1:25am) in reply to Neek

    him actually having AA then sick read and sick fold imo, the result does matter here since u were actually right and dumped KK , nice
     
  20. supra1988t supra1988t is online now

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 1:33am) in reply to mattdb9er

     
    Originally Posted by mattdb9er View Post

    him actually having AA then sick read and sick fold imo, the result does matter here since u were actually right and dumped KK , nice

    so if he was wrong the result wouldnt matter?
    649 
  21. mattdb9er mattdb9er is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 1:41am) in reply to supra1988t

    well it confirms his read , so his read was right in this situation is all im sayin

    also i suck and dont fold KK online , so its a good fold to me when u do and he shows u AA
     
  22. supra1988t supra1988t is online now

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 2:03am) in reply to mattdb9er

    But when you're ahead of his range its not a good fold, even if he had the top of his range in this particular instance.
    Edited By: supra1988t Jun 19th, 2010 at 02:04 AM
    649 
  23. mattdb9er mattdb9er is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 2:07am) in reply to supra1988t

    im not tryin to debate about this guys range , im just sayin good fold to the guy that folded KK , he went with it and was right i really cant fault him
     
  24. Passiveplay Passiveplay is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 2:21am) in reply to mattdb9er

     
    Originally Posted by mattdb9er View Post

    im not tryin to debate about this guys range , im just sayin good fold to the guy that folded KK , he went with it and was right i really cant fault him

    He asked for hand advice, this hand his range is all that matters. If he only does it with AA it's a good fold but if his range is QQ+ AK you should call, the result of this specific hand doesn't matter.
     
  25. Illini213 Illini213 is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 2:27am) in reply to mattdb9er

    Without looking at the responses, like what do you think the dude who 4-bet shoved would do if he saw QQ or AK... he is going to shove even if he has been tight, you should just expect that from most online players. Therefore his range is prob like QQ+, AK+... only one hand in that range has KK beat and youre solid favorite over other 2
    Edited By: Illini213 Jun 19th, 2010 at 03:11 AM
    12 1
  26. mattdb9er mattdb9er is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 2:33am) in reply to Illini213

    did u guys miss the part where i said i never fold KK, im giving the guy credit for making a laydown that he thought was a good laydown at the time, im not sure what the debate is here
     
  27. Somepokerguy Somepokerguy is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 2:50am) in reply to mattdb9er

    You can clearly see those who have adapted to the changing game of poker and those who havent.

    Folding KK pre is becoming a standard play these days. The days of their range being 1010+ AQ+ are over and have been for some time. L2adapt people.
  28. snowman2k6 snowman2k6 is offline DO NOT TRADE -- MONEY TRANSFER SCAMMER

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 3:13am) in reply to Somepokerguy

    Lol I thought this was a hi five monitor snap call
  29. Illini213 Illini213 is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 3:37am) in reply to Somepokerguy

     
    Originally Posted by Somepokerguy View Post

    You can clearly see those who have adapted to the changing game of poker and those who havent.

    Folding KK pre is becoming a standard play these days. The days of their range being 1010+ AQ+ are over and have been for some time. L2adapt people.

    Lol really? wtf are you talking about? I guess I havent adapted to the changing game, oh well

    EDIT: prob sounded like an idiot, cuz i'd really really hope ure leveling lol
    Edited By: Illini213 Jun 19th, 2010 at 03:38 AM
    12 1
  30. Neek Neek is offline

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    Jun 19th, 2010 (6/19/2010 3:39am) in reply to snowman2k6

    Trust me, I don't make a habit of folding KK preflop. I don't think I've ever done it before over 2500+ tournaments. But this time I did [shrug]

    Didn't matter in the long run as I got kicked in the dick later in the tournament in a huge pot for the chiplead as a big favorite...again.

    <------BB
    Edited By: Neek Jun 19th, 2010 at 03:41 AM
     
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