pokerstars Game #22122946022: Tournament #120443092, $8.00+$0.80 Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2008/11/17 13:58:07 ET
Table '120443092 70' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: xfx- (34516 in chips)
Seat 2: Lokkem (119172 in chips)
Seat 3: willstaffa (87968 in chips)
Seat 4: Amilk63 (90072 in chips)
Seat 5: big ulf (38880 in chips)
Seat 6: xkaay2 (30871 in chips)
Seat 7: oranjewm (82060 in chips)
Seat 8: flashkowski (43572 in chips)
Seat 9: Horst Heftig (82805 in chips)
xfx-: posts the ante 200
Lokkem: posts the ante 200
willstaffa: posts the ante 200
Amilk63: posts the ante 200
big ulf: posts the ante 200
xkaay2: posts the ante 200
oranjewm: posts the ante 200
flashkowski: posts the ante 200
Horst Heftig: posts the ante 200
oranjewm: posts small blind 1000
flashkowski: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to willstaffa [Js As]
Horst Heftig: folds
xfx-: raises 2000 to 4000
Lokkem: folds
willstaffa: calls 4000
Amilk63: folds
big ulf: folds
xkaay2: folds
oranjewm: calls 3000
flashkowski: calls 2000
*** FLOP *** [9s Ad 2s]
oranjewm: checks
flashkowski: bets 10000
xfx-: raises 20316 to 30316 and is all-in

im almost positive your beat here. first of all you have to worry about the other 2 guys in the pot, and you essentially have no information on what they may be holding. the preflop raiser i highly doubt would push there w/ anything worse than AQ. but thats only half the problem, one of your opponents lead out into a 4 way pot, and whatever he has, he is going to the felt with it 100% of the time based on his bet size... so if you call here, your looking at a 3 way all in (assuming the 4th player folds) and you have AJ... there is no shot in hell you are ever ahead here.

this is why you shouldn't be calling preflop w/ AJ unless your willing to get it in when you hit top pair.

If I had the right read on xfx, the rest of the table was weak-passive, etc, and I thought my AJ ss was ahead of his UTG raise, I'd 3 bet him. Otherwise I could not find a reason to put 4K of dead money in the pot. What would you've done in case any of the remaining players yet to act 3bets to 15-20k?

Not trying to be rough with you, but since you posted searching for opinions, here is mine:

This flat is as bad as it gets. You are accomplishing nothing, other than putting dead money up for grabs. If there was any decent player at that table with some sort of good showdown value hand, you'd never get to see this flop.

This been said, this flop is as close to gin for you as possible, since you can not play this hand with the sole purpose of flopping an A and get it in there.

And of course you can't expect to ever flop the draw and see turn and river for free.

So here is my take here:

Pre flop : FOLD=3BET>FLAT

Post flop: 3BET ISO>FOLD=FLAT

at the $8 level facing a min raise, i wouldnt be too concerned about folding this pre given the stack sizes

as for the flop, unless i read it wrong u got a bet and raise in front of you before you even act. Insta muck IMO

 

Originally Posted by willstaffa

i see a lot of u guys think that i should have folded preflop. Is that the prevailing strategy here? Fold AJ suited to a min raise? I understand that if an A hits the flop i may be in serious trouble here but what if min raiser has small pocket pair, a10 or worst?

The problems are:

Since you flatted, you have absolutely no idea about what villain holding is, and if you flop top pair you'll never know if it's good enough until all the chips are in the middle, and if that happens, you'll most likely be behind.

Another big problem with your call is the fact that your hand is not even close to be good enough in case some1 decides to 3bet, and like I already said, if there is any decent player left to act, and he has any decent holding, this will happen.

And the last consideration is: If UTG player has a small pair like you said, you won't get paid if any of your cards hit.....unless he flops a set, an scenario where he will be the one getting paid.

If you think chances are UTG player is opening light, re-raise him, and take control of the hand. If he calls, you'll have position on him after the flop, and you can re-evaluate the situation.

Of course if somebody else comes over the top of your re-raise, it'll be time to let your hand go.

3bet or fold are your best options here. Go with your reads, and act accordingly.

^^^^^

This

With your stack size calling preflop was the wrong play uness you flopped the flush. If you are up against AK, then basically you need to hit your J or hit another spade, so you have outs. But if you are up against trips, another A isn't gonna help assuming it completes a full house for them, and you will lose the flush outs. At this point I think yo should fold it and look for a better spot, especially since you have a nice stack as it is, why gamble off like half of it when you most likely are pretty far behind here.

 

Originally Posted by willstaffa

so half say call prefolp, and half say fold preflop?

I don't think anybody here said call preflop

As played, this is a very easy jam.

Post flop this is an all day get your chips in the middle spot... You not only have a decent A you have the nut draw and your only going to be risking 40k in chips at the chance of winning 3x that... Preflop I would definitely rethink my play(especially if original preflop raiser has been a spewtard at the table)-3 betting here is not a bad option at all... You have position and a min raise from someone in middle position in an 8$ tourney can be any number of hands... Just mix up the play a little preflop but postflop you have to get this in... GL