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Ok, this is going to be what appears as a rare post actually talking about something else other than the banning online gamblng bill (shocking isnt it?) lol
I'm a recreational player who plays on average of 1-3 $5 sng per day. I also occassionally try $5 MTT's on FTP. Nothing big thats going to net me thousands of dollars in one day.
Over the past 2-3 weeks, Ive been reading posts and realized, there are some very, very bright, educated people playing online poker.
I'm not the smartest person in the world, in fact, to be honest, I prolly feel like I have average intelligence or possibly slightly less than average intelligence (hey, Im being honest here). High school was hard for me and college was impossible. Ive often felt and still do feel at times I do have a learning disability as things are hard for me to remember.
When I play online in a sng or MTT, and Im dealt cards that are pretty good and come in with a preflop raise, and say someone calls my raise and the flop comes down and then Im totally clueless as to how I stand if I dont get any piece of the flop.
This is frustrating, especially if a limper calls my preflop raise and he/she bets 1st after the flop, say the size of the pot. I get frustrated and my confidence level in my hole cards is shot.
Is this because I dont play enough online to recognize what my opponent could have in relation to his/her bets?
I know for sure I cant play poker and sit here and try to figure out pot odds, implied odds and if Im an underdog and by how much. The best I can do is figure out the % in regards to outs I have to make my hand by the river. Just being able to do that I know is not enough for me to be successful.
I know some of you are going to suggest I join a site like PokerXFactor and watch the video's to learn. As much as I would love to do that, I use to be deaf but recently was implanted with a Cochlear Implant and voices when turning on my speakers to my computer sound weird and are hard to understand.
I do want to get better because I do enjoy playing online in a recreational matter. I'm a realist in terms of my poker ability and know I cant make a living playing online.
So, can someone who isnt as intellectual as most people who play online be successful at online poker? Even if they dont play much?
I would appreciate any comments from anyone (yes, I know there are going to be sarcastic comments as well and I have a good sense of humor so fire away). -
My first suggestion would be to pick up Harrington on Holdem. I picked up the 3 book set off ebay for 50 bucks.
Now I'm far from an expert, but IMHO it would depend on your read of your opponent, if they are LAG, you may want to repop them to see where you stand. If they are TAG, and called your raise pre, try and figure what they would have called your raise with and how the board may fit the range of hands they could have. Bet with a purpose, for info, value or to give poor odds.
BTW, I'm about as bright as a box of rocks -
<span>"I'm not the smartest person in the world, in fact, to be honest, I prolly feel like I have average intelligence or possibly slightly less than average intelligence (hey, Im being honest here). High school was hard for me and college was impossible. Ive often felt and still do feel at times I do have a learning disability as things are hard for me to remember."</span>
Honesty puts you ahead of the game. Knowing what you don't know is just as important.
A disproportionate number of online poker players are ADD (me), or ADHD. I don't have hard numbers, but this is something that seems to be an easy one to see.
Many pros just play. They all aren't math geniuses like Chris Ferguson. They just fucking play.
Sharpen what you have, and continue to discipline yourself mentally, and you will be in good shape. -
Its all about figuring out what your opponent has and using that information against them. Lets say you have AK and make a 4x's the big blind raise and get one caller. The flop comes something like 3, 6, 10 rainbow and then they bet out the size of the pot. You then have to think...OK, they called my raise preflop and then bet a decent amount on the flop what could they have? This is a non-scary board so I'd probably rule out a set simply because MOST players would slow play a set with a board like that. Could they have a straight draw with 4,5? Maybe, but probably not since they called a raise preflop. They may also have an overpair such as JJ or QQ...this I also doubt once again because they only CALLED your raise and choose NOT TO RE-RAISE (players at higher levels will play big hands differently, but since its only a $5 sng I think I'm pretty safe explaining my opinion here).
Another possiblity I wouldn't rule out is a pocket pair lower than 10's. Maybe 7's or 8's but what I'd most likely put him on is a hand like J,10-A,10...whatever it is he's probably got a 10 with a decent kicker.
So now we've narrowed him down to a few possible hands. Now that you know or have a pretty good idea of what he's holding you have to decide how you want to play your hand. Is your opponent going to be capable of laying down top pair if you make a big raise representing a big overpair??
Second thing that comes into play is his/your table image. Notice how all the players at the table are playing. Is there one guy at the table who is raising/playing every pot like a crazy person? Or is there someone who has been folding ALOT and only showing down big hand? Take notes on these players so you'll remember who's doing what.
Now back you your current situation... Has this guy that just threw out a raise after the flop the maniac that has been raising alot and playing aggessively?? If so, I'm just not gonna take his raise seriously and probably throw a re-raise right back at him to put the pressure back in his corner. But what if they guy is the rock who finally decided to play a hand for the first time in 2-3 orbits and he's the one doing the post-flop raising...I muck the hand without even thinking.
I believe those are the 2 most important things to being a good poker playing....1)being able to put someone on a hand and 2)recognizing/establishing and good table image
If you know what someone has and how their going to play, the cards your dealt are irrelavant (to some degree).
The best thing you can do is practice and play LOTS and LOTS of hands. Whenever your faced with a tough decision save the hand history and go over it later and figure out how you could have played the hand differently. There's is always something to learn with EVERY hand you play. Over time your reads will become better and everything you do will be automatic. You probably won't even need more than a couple seconds to make your decisions...you'll just know.
Good Luck...let me know if you need any more advice. -
Takes a very bold man to make statements like that, and a very respectable community embraced it as best they could. That is most certainly not something I would expect to see from RGP, I can tell you that for fact. I believe I fall into a somewhat similar situation as the original poster, with concerns to the poker analysis at least. I play for tight aggressive for the most part, but post flop plays and gauging the strength of my opponents hands is for the most part a mystery. Oddly enough even with that being said, I still have had moderate success cashing out consistently enough.......with the occassional tilt of course lol. I dont do any math whatsoever, play entirely by feel and would like to try to adopt new methods to my game. I have read a bunch of books, but other than the basics, the advanced techniques have yet to be come in handy in live situations. One thing that I am aware of is the fact that where I do little to no math with regards to calculations, I do plenty of math when it comes to how much money I have at risk at any given point in time. I do think that is my biggest downfall. Am I doomed to play micro limits or sng's? Is there anything I could do to try to be proactive and play the game as it should be played, rather than having to be constantly worried about the potential risk involved?
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I appreciate the post, so, I'll give my honest opinion.
Poker is a game of LOGIC. You have a limited number of possibilities, and you have to narrow those down as fast and accurately as you can. Once you have things figured out, you act accordingly.
Poker is a game of PERSONALITY. I'm still amazed that every tournament that I play, so many people assume I'm a loose aggressive player, and talk about how they are going to "catch" me. This incorrect "image" is why I feel I am reasonably successfull. If everyone has you "pigeon-holed", you are in trouble. I'm the guy that folds AJ UTG and doesn't even think twice about it. Yet, my "personality" presents an image that makes people want to bust me.
Poker is a game of AGGRESSION. You want to find out what this means? Play a cheap tournament. Anytime you are in the last half of the table to act and the pot is unopened to you, raise 3x BB. If you get only one caller, you will bet 4.5x BB as a continuation bet if checked to you. Don't CALL any bets. If you like your hand in an opened pot or after the flop, go ahead and reraise. Very limited calling here. I think you'll be amazed at how well you'll do. Especially, if you pick up AA at the right time. They'll be standing in line to pay you off. If you play 3 of these "test" tourneys, you'll have a huge stack in one of them.
Poker is a game of SITUATIONS. You have to have good "pattern recognition". There are times when you re-raise with KQ on the button, and times that you fold it for a discount price in the BB. Logic helps you determine your "situation". Sometimes, you just wait for a better "situation", sometimes you determine that the "situation" calls for pushing allin with J9o. I think this is the real key to great poker - recognizing what is going on by assessing all the variables.
The intelligence necessary to play poker is only related to your ability to do these things. It's obvious, the most important would be LOGIC which leads to putting yourself into great SITUATIONS. I think good AGGRESSION comes best as part of your natural PERSONALITY which allows you to accumulate chips and then it leads to the right "image" that make people want to "bust" you. Hopefully, they'll try right when you have the nuts.
I would think the best thing you could do for your poker, would be to work on your logic skills. Do logic puzzles, sudoku, and problem-solving exercises. This is entirely different than the intelligence needed to get through high school or college.
I think "classical" intelligence is not that important. I know some really smart people that SUCK at poker because they are little timid weenies.
GL -
Mesa,
A few things, school is different than poker (or the real world for that matter). I'm very good at school, and I struggle in these same situations. So, I wouldn't put too much into that.
Secondly, as others pointed out, the best teacher for these sort of things is experience. How long have you been playing? I just started playing online last March. I know, until very recently, these sorts of situations gave me fits. It's only in the last few weeks that I really feel confident both rerasing a hand like that and mucking it, depending on the cirumstances.
Honestly, some of the best advice I can give is, get the hand history, and post it in the hand advice. See what questions get asked, and try to answer them. This will give you a good idea of how many good players think. What are they thinking about. These are the same sorts of things that you should be thinking about next time your in this situation. -
No way, look at Lil Jon and most other rappers.
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i'm changing my sn to "little timid weenie" lmao....to OP, an interesting subject.
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You think Mike Matusow is smart? There are several big time pros, and he might not be the best example, that are successful, winning players who i wouldn't classify as "smart."
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I won't go into too much detail, but you have to be "bright" at least. Not necessarily smart, or, a genius, but at least bright.
The fact that Mike is so ADHD-acting and has the addictive-personality shit going on actually increases the chance that he has more going on up there than 100 IQ. -
Lots of good advice here for you. I hope you don't mind if I add a few further tips.
1) <span>Take notes about your opponents. </span> If you see players who play aces with bad kickers, any two suited then make a note and prepare to take their stack. If you see someone who plays mediocre hands out of position make a note as they are likely to make mistakes. If you see someone who appears to be a solid player make a note and respect their raises. Showdowns give you free information about the types of cards people play so make sure you pay attention until the end of the hand even if you fold preflop. Watch to see if players make certain types of raises or try to steal blinds regularly.
2) <span>Use your hand histories.</span> Unless you find yourself playing a very passive game and folding to virtually any raise you can probably stick to just looking at the hands where who won a big pot or lost a big pot. I think I read a tip once about trying to do a commentary on the hand like the TV analysts would do - look to see whether you should have even been playing the hand, did you size your bets correctly, did you call a hand when the odds didn't justify it. You won't win every hand but if you identify your mistakes and try to avoid repeating them you'll be a successful player. If you are unsure whether you played a hand correctly post the hand history here and you'll probably get two or three well thought out analyses of your play on the hand.
3) <span>If you are worried about not being able to work out pot odds, get yourself an odds calculator.</span> I don't know if it's heresy here to suggest it, but I see no problem with getting a tool to help you work out when you have the right pot odds to call a hand if you say your maths isn't great. If you are a good player you'll probably find yourself ignoring the advice it hands out on many occasions when you feel you have a good read on your opponent.
You don't need to be an intellectual to win at poker but it helps if you play smarter than the other players at your table. -
You do not have to be book smart to succeed at poker, although it doesn't hurt. AwwwNutz' post was very good, and one I totally agree with. Learning simple math such as pot odds and outs % is crucial to improving, but is something that doesn't need to be learned exactly for you to be successful.
The key thing is you are already asking HOW to get better, which is a big reason people are not successful at things. If they aren't good, and if they DON'T WANT to get better, they won't. The more I learn about poker the more I realize that I don't know, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. As long as I absorb every bit of information I can and I'm constantly learning, that's good enough for me; from then on the energy I put into it will have a direct result on my success. That's all I can ask of myself.
Good luck to you sir.
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