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quiz implies that there are correct answers, and these are some hands that could go either way, but im curious as to what you guys think. there are 4 hands in question. granted reads/hud stats would be great for all, but i dont have them right now so just assume that this is your standard $5-$10 DoN player, aka 80% donk, 10% average player, 10% good player
1. Push, Fold, or other?
pokerstars Game #24664595790: Tournament #139003673, $10.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2009/02/06 17:49:32 ET
Table '139003673 1' 10-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Svenskaaaaa (1095 in chips)
Seat 2: Dazree (1765 in chips)
Seat 3: Unijambiste (1250 in chips)
Seat 5: Winmoore (1610 in chips)
Seat 6: deadseasalts (1300 in chips)
Seat 7: glennvdog (1690 in chips)
Seat 8: goldenad (1395 in chips)
Seat 9: -KiLl3rBe3f~ (3750 in chips)
Seat 10: jonsanavic (1145 in chips)
Svenskaaaaa: posts the ante 10
Dazree: posts the ante 10
Unijambiste: posts the ante 10
Winmoore: posts the ante 10
deadseasalts: posts the ante 10
glennvdog: posts the ante 10
goldenad: posts the ante 10
-KiLl3rBe3f~: posts the ante 10
jonsanavic: posts the ante 10
Unijambiste: posts small blind 50
Winmoore: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to goldenad [As Qd]
deadseasalts: folds
glennvdog: folds
goldenad...
--------------------------------------------------------------
2. Push, fold, or other?
PokerStars Game #24664743057: Tournament #139003495, $10.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/02/06 17:54:07 ET
Table '139003495 1' 10-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 3: edrich (915 in chips)
Seat 4: domdo (5220 in chips)
Seat 6: billsta68 (3750 in chips)
Seat 8: goldenad (1885 in chips)
Seat 9: SpiderSteve (1055 in chips)
Seat 10: dls888 (2175 in chips)
edrich: posts the ante 15
domdo: posts the ante 15
billsta68: posts the ante 15
goldenad: posts the ante 15
SpiderSteve: posts the ante 15
dls888: posts the ante 15
domdo: posts small blind 75
billsta68: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to goldenad [Kd Kh]
goldenad...
--------------------------------------------------------------
3. Push, fold, or other?
PokerStars Game #24804022592: Tournament #139922013, $10.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2009/02/10 18:38:41 ET
Table '139922013 1' 10-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: M26.7 (1290 in chips)
Seat 4: goldenad (2315 in chips)
Seat 5: studlyone007 (1840 in chips)
Seat 6: ChristopherT (1250 in chips)
Seat 7: lrg*Krayzie (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: tien76 (2670 in chips)
Seat 9: tittyman26 (775 in chips)
Seat 10: ziocarlo (1860 in chips)
M26.7: posts the ante 20
goldenad: posts the ante 20
studlyone007: posts the ante 20
ChristopherT: posts the ante 20
lrg*Krayzie: posts the ante 20
tien76: posts the ante 20
tittyman26: posts the ante 20
ziocarlo: posts the ante 20
ziocarlo: posts small blind 100
M26.7: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to goldenad [Th Tc]
goldenad...
--------------------------------------------------------------
4. Push or fold? why?
PokerStars Game #25029916901: Tournament #141432976, $10.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2009/02/16 21:59:35 ET
Table '141432976 1' 10-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: ivski (2430 in chips)
Seat 2: ET_mtl (2630 in chips)
Seat 4: firulay (3850 in chips)
Seat 5: Ratesz (1815 in chips)
Seat 8: maddog2078 (1760 in chips)
Seat 9: goldenad (2515 in chips)
ivski: posts the ante 40
ET_mtl: posts the ante 40
firulay: posts the ante 40
Ratesz: posts the ante 40
maddog2078: posts the ante 40
goldenad: posts the ante 40
maddog2078: posts small blind 200
goldenad: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to goldenad [Qs Qc]
ivski: folds
ET_mtl: folds
firulay: raises 3410 to 3810 and is all-in
Ratesz: folds
maddog2078: folds
goldenad... -
Posts: 1,296
Joined: Jul 06Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:10pm) in reply to Goldenad
don't play these but...
1)shove
2)raise/call
3)raise/call, possibly fold if it's a really nitty bigstack/regular or a billion ppl overshove.
4) call -
Posts: 5,443
Joined: Sep 07Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:11pm) in reply to Rocky
surely folding the last one is correct unless u have aces or maybe kings?Originally Posted by Rocky Of Poker
1. shove
2. raise call shove
3. shove
4. call, u have a bad seat.. the smaller stacks will be shoving into you when folded to them. call here n win. -
Posts: 10,222
Joined: Nov 05Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:13pm) in reply to Goldenad
You don't need reads in any of these four hands. Play these hands this way regardless of who else is at your table, and how they play.
1. Shove
2. Shove
3. Shove
4. Fold, you need kings if he's shoving any two, and AA if he's tighter. -
Posts: 334
Joined: Jan 09Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:16pm) in reply to Jennifear
1. Standard raise
2.Shove
3. Standard raise
4. Fold -
Posts: 278
Joined: Sep 08Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:25pm) in reply to Goldenad
1) lots of options on this one...3xbb raise/call shove or str8 up shove would be ok here...9 players left and you need to chip up to survive the tourney...if you dont feel comfortable going broke with AQ i can actually see open folding here as well
2) shove - i know, i know, 6 players left with 2 shorties, but still...if you shove here you're either taking down blinds or 80%+ to double up and put even more pressure on smaller stacks...either way it helps ur survival
3) insta-fold - your stack is decent and there are 8 players left...look for a better spot...if you raise here and get shoved on you are either crushed or racing for a large amount of chips. not a good situation in DoN
4) tough situation here - i might actually fold this...6 players left with 2 shorties, and the blinds are huge. you are going thru the BB right now so you can survive another round or two. i doubt he's shoving 4K in there without a big hand, unless he's a complete donk...his stack is perfect to fold 2 cash to he has no reason to be raising. if you call and lose a race you're going to be kicking yourself for not letting one of the two shorties bust first..
just my humble opinions. feel free to comment :) -
Posts: 73
Joined: Feb 09Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:29pm) in reply to Jennifear
This should of ended the threadOriginally Posted by Jennifear
You don't need reads in any of these four hands. Play these hands this way regardless of who else is at your table, and how they play.
1. Shove
2. Shove
3. Shove
4. Fold, you need kings if he's shoving any two, and AA if he's tighter. -
Posts: 734
Joined: Feb 06Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:30pm) in reply to goatmeal1
if someone doesnt mind and is a sharkscoope subscriber. Could you post my stats for $10 DON. Dont mean to steal your thread. Thanks
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Posts: 1,688
Joined: Dec 05Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:33pm) in reply to Goldenad
1. Shove
2. 3. 4. Fold.
Cereally -
Posts: 172
Joined: Jan 07Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:34pm) in reply to Goldenad
1. shove
2.raise/shove/call
3. 4-bet/call shove
4reshove! -
Posts: 5,260
Joined: Feb 07Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 1:45pm) in reply to Goldenad
1. I raise/call to allow worse hands to reship, but shoving is fine too
2. I would ship this, but it might actually be correct to fold.
3. Shove
4. Would need to run ICM on this one, but I bet it's close and probably a call. I think it's read dependent too.
EDIT: Ok, I read Jennifear's post, nevermind. Obv I need more work in these spots. -
Posts: 2,669
Joined: Jun 06Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 2:03pm) in reply to Goldenad
Jen, im not sure if you have addressed this before, but how accurate do you think the nash push/fold ranges are for double or nothigns? i know you use them when making these decisions but in my opinion nash recommends that we push far too lightly. i put in the information for the first hand and it recommends my pushing range as 19.8% of hands.
for the AQ hand
nash assumes that callers will be calling perfectly here which is certainly not the case, rather they call much looser. if this is the case, do you still think a pushing range of 19.8%, TT+ A2s+ A9o+ A5o-A4o K9s+ K6s-K5s KTo+ Q9s+ QTo+ JTs is appropriate? i cant fathom how pushing K8s here can be profitable...
the TT hand: nash recommends
33.9%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K7o+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ T8s+ 98s
why?!!? -
Posts: 334
Joined: Jan 09Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 3:07pm) in reply to Micdiddy
You're shoving AQ, but folding kings?Originally Posted by Micdiddy
1. Shove
2. 3. 4. Fold.
Cereally -
Posts: 56
Joined: Oct 06Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 3:09pm) in reply to Goldenad
Why does everyone think Jennifear has all the correct answers? She has played 2 DON's so what experience doe she have. The most equity in these tournaments besides donks are regular SNG players that think they can just hop in and apply the same concepts to this game.
1. Fold. Nothing good will come from this hand if you are button up it is a shove.
2. Raise Call. Try to induce the big stacks to use the mentality that how dare you raise I am going to shove on you because you have to fold aces crap. You will be 80% to double up and cruise to the money. If somebody was truly on their deathbed then I would shove but do you know how often those stacks will double up or steal the blinds then where are you.
3. Fold. Same as 1 if you get called you're crushed. You're very comfortable with over 10 big blinds and are 3/8.
4. Call. AA and KK will not play this way so the only hand you don't want to see is AK but most times he has a smaller pair. Definately depends on whether not he is a regular but I beat random donk into the pot. -
1. shove
2. shove
3. shove
4. shove... this one is kinda close for me but the blinds are so high and u are basically tied for 2nd with 2 other players and u still need to more elimintaions...i would grab my balls in this one, pray i hold and sit out next hand. -
1. raise
2. call/raise
3. raise
4. Fold -
number 4 is a fold in my book. no way u should be putting it in here with QQ unless u know other dude has Q garbage.
Originally Posted by ficha19
1. shove
2. shove
3. shove
4. shove... this one is kinda close for me but the blinds are so high and u are basically tied for 2nd with 2 other players and u still need to more elimintaions...i would grab my balls in this one, pray i hold and sit out next hand. -
1- shove
2- shove
3- shove or fold (I could see both being an option)
4- fold no reason to risk your tourney when you can likely fold to the win. Having the most chips at the end of the game gets you more than if you finished 5th and had 4 chips. -
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Posts: 10,222
Joined: Nov 05Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 10:44pm) in reply to Goldenad
Nash is working under the premise that your opponents are playing perfect poker. If they are, then you can shove very, very wide, mostly because your fold equity is SO high.Originally Posted by Goldenad
Jen, im not sure if you have addressed this before, but how accurate do you think the nash push/fold ranges are for double or nothigns? i know you use them when making these decisions but in my opinion nash recommends that we push far too lightly. i put in the information for the first hand and it recommends my pushing range as 19.8% of hands.
for the AQ hand
nash assumes that callers will be calling perfectly here which is certainly not the case, rather they call much looser. if this is the case, do you still think a pushing range of 19.8%, TT+ A2s+ A9o+ A5o-A4o K9s+ K6s-K5s KTo+ Q9s+ QTo+ JTs is appropriate? i cant fathom how pushing K8s here can be profitable...
the TT hand: nash recommends
33.9%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K7o+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ T8s+ 98s
why?!!?
Since players tend to call too often, you do need to adjust down, but in this case all three shoves in this post are still relatively easy ones. -
Posts: 454
Joined: May 07Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 10:52pm) in reply to Jennifear
1 - 3 shove. 4. Call because blinds are to high and you could easily be out next.
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Posts: 277
Joined: Jun 06Feb 17th, 2009 (2/17/2009 11:12pm) in reply to cantshaikme
shove shove raise fold.
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Posts: 2,039
Joined: Aug 07Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 2:42am) in reply to Jennifear
i had a feeling that 4 was a fold even though i said shove. i didnt think we had a big enough stack to fodl qqOriginally Posted by Jennifear
You don't need reads in any of these four hands. Play these hands this way regardless of who else is at your table, and how they play.
1. Shove
2. Shove
3. Shove
4. Fold, you need kings if he's shoving any two, and AA if he's tighter.
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