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Double or Nothing ICM Issue

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  1. GraAlaMat77 GraAlaMat77 is offline

    Aiken, SC
    United States

    Posts: 305
    Joined: Jun 08

    May 2nd, 2010 (5/2/2010 3:10am)

    I regularly play the $21.60 DoNs on stars. I 9-12 table, and up until two weeks ago, I was clipping along at 6-7% ROI. Lately tho, its been break-even or losing sessions. I have gone back over my HHs, and found some issues with not controlling pot size later in games when I may turn a set with a straight/flush (draw) on board, but that just comes from my own stubbornness of "wanting to play poker." My main problem seems to be shoving against larger-stacked limpers who my HUD doesn't seem to have tagged as "out of line (high vpip)." I have a couple of ICM questions I could use some help with.

    ***** Hand History for Game 43477504177 ***** (Poker Stars)
    Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 02, 01:51:16 ET 2010
    Table 268576426 1 (Real Money)
    Seat 5 is the button
    Seat 2: grosserooo ( $1505.00 USD )
    Seat 3: bradders1990 ( $1900.00 USD )
    Seat 4: Durandale ( $2165.00 USD )
    Seat 5: GraAlaMat77 ( $1114.00 USD )
    Seat 6: yan500 ( $1560.00 USD )
    Seat 7: mattng89 ( $3046.00 USD )
    Seat 8: emperorrex ( $1885.00 USD )
    Seat 10: Andronov_al ( $1825.00 USD )
    grosserooo posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    bradders1990 posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    Durandale posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    GraAlaMat77 posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    yan500 posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    mattng89 posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    emperorrex posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    Andronov_al posts ante of [$10.00 USD].
    yan500 posts small blind [$50.00 USD].
    mattng89 posts big blind [$100.00 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to GraAlaMat77 [ 4h 4s ]
    emperorrex folds
    Andronov_al folds
    grosserooo folds
    bradders1990 folds
    Durandale calls [$100.00 USD]
    GraAlaMat77 raises [$1104.00 USD]
    yan500 folds
    mattng89 folds
    Durandale calls [$1004.00 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 7s, Jd ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
    Durandale shows [Jh, Th ]
    GraAlaMat77 shows [4h, 4s ]
    Durandale wins $2438.00 USD from main pot

    According to Nash, in this spot, if Durandale does not limp, I should be shoving 22+. What does his limp do to the calculation. I'm not trying to be results oriented, but is his limp a signal to wait an orbit? If he folds, obviously I'm shipping about 50% of dealt cards. I don't even believe its a good (ICM) call by him once I do shove.

    ***** Hand History for Game 43478190863 ***** (Poker Stars)
    Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 02, 02:28:24 ET 2010
    Table 268576448 1 (Real Money)
    Seat 4 is the button
    Seat 3: vetal028omsk ( $1318.00 USD )
    Seat 4: coop2005 ( $3154.00 USD )
    Seat 5: GraAlaMat77 ( $1775.00 USD )
    Seat 7: zakmar24 ( $3100.00 USD )
    Seat 8: hairhouse ( $3315.00 USD )
    Seat 9: Lockyer006 ( $2338.00 USD )
    vetal028omsk posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
    coop2005 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
    GraAlaMat77 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
    zakmar24 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
    hairhouse posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
    Lockyer006 posts ante of [$25.00 USD].
    GraAlaMat77 posts small blind [$125.00 USD].
    zakmar24 posts big blind [$250.00 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to GraAlaMat77 [ Js Jc ]
    hairhouse folds
    Lockyer006 folds
    vetal028omsk folds
    coop2005 raises [$750.00 USD]
    GraAlaMat77 raises [$1625.00 USD]
    zakmar24 folds
    coop2005 calls [$1000.00 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, 4s, 3d ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
    GraAlaMat77 shows [Js, Jc ]
    coop2005 shows [Ac, Kc ]
    coop2005 wins $3900.00 USD from main pot

    Here, Nash says that if the button does not shove, then I should shove ATC. If he does shove, I should call with QQ+. Should I just take the raise and consider it a shove. There is a player with smaller stack still in play on the bubble. Once again, not trying to be results oriented, just wanting to understand what the limp (especially later-positioned) means in terms of adjusting ICM.

    Thanks
  2. Jennifear Jennifear is online now

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    May 3rd, 2010 (5/3/2010 9:57am) in reply to GraAlaMat77

    Hand 1 is read-dependent. If the villain has limp/folded previously, a shove is a great idea. If not, just fold.

    Hand 2: Just fold. Do consider that raise a shove because your fold equity in shoving is extremely low. Take note that Nash likely has the villain shoving much wider than he actually is in this spot, so you may have to be even tighter than QQ+.
  3. beorn22 beorn22 is offline

    West Warwick, RI
    United States

    Posts: 289
    Joined: Feb 10

    May 3rd, 2010 (5/3/2010 11:56am) in reply to Jennifear

     
    Originally Posted by Jennifear View Post

    Hand 1 is read-dependent. If the villain has limp/folded previously, a shove is a great idea. If not, just fold.

    Hand 2: Just fold. Do consider that raise a shove because your fold equity in shoving is extremely low. Take note that Nash likely has the villain shoving much wider than he actually is in this spot, so you may have to be even tighter than QQ+.

    This. There is a good article about DON's from SitNGoPlanet. Read the part about equity on the bubble. Very useful information making both of these relatively straightforward lay downs.

    GL

    Edit:http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/sitand...NGs_part2.html
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