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was down to ten seconds, is there a better line i can take?

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  1. happyking happyking is offline

    Minehead
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 64
    Joined: Sep 06

    Feb 2nd, 2011 (2/2/2011 11:56pm)

    pokerstars Game #57010876195: Tournament #358190763, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVI (2500/5000) - 2011/02/02 23:25:30 UTC [2011/02/02 18:25:30 ET]
    Table '358190763 19' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: slackersd (63182 in chips)
    Seat 2: Ad Rem 1986 (159728 in chips)
    Seat 3: G0liath (565357 in chips)
    Seat 4: 4$OSLO$4 (5864 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 5: ferjco1401 (438166 in chips)
    Seat 6: tickkid (227116 in chips)
    slackersd: posts the ante 625
    Ad Rem 1986: posts the ante 625
    G0liath: posts the ante 625
    4$OSLO$4: posts the ante 625
    ferjco1401: posts the ante 625
    tickkid: posts the ante 625
    Ad Rem 1986: posts small blind 2500
    G0liath: posts big blind 5000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to tickkid [Kh Qh]
    4$OSLO$4: folds
    ferjco1401: folds
    tickkid: raises 10000 to 15000
    slackersd: folds
    Ad Rem 1986: folds
    G0liath: raises 22500 to 37500
    tickkid: calls 22500
    *** FLOP *** [6h Qs 4h]
    G0liath: bets 29795
    tickkid: raises 159196 to 188991 and is all-in
    G0liath: folds
    Uncalled bet (159196) returned to tickkid
    tickkid collected 140840 from pot
    tickkid: doesn't show hand
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 140840 | Rake 0
    Board [6h Qs 4h]
    Seat 1: slackersd (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Ad Rem 1986 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: G0liath (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 4: 4$OSLO$4 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: ferjco1401 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: tickkid collected (140840)

    felt rushed here and couldnt see a way off the hand with a flop this good so shipped in.
    is a call here better or is this ok? i felt the push helps when im behind but also not sure what value im missing?
  2. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
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    Feb 3rd, 2011 (2/3/2011 2:33am) in reply to happyking

    I hope you were being a little facetious about "couldn't see a way off the hand". Poker is tough enough as it is without nonsense like that in your head.

    I like the shove a lot better than smooth-calling. A shove looks like a naked flush draw, and you'll get action from middle pairs. If you call, villain knows you're on something pretty good, and he's shutting down the turn with those hands that would call the shove.
     
  3. kelmann333 kelmann333 is offline

    Posts: 331
    Joined: Mar 10

    Feb 3rd, 2011 (2/3/2011 7:16pm) in reply to grapsfan

    mmmm...I prefer to smooth call here. Villian reraised preflop and we flopped top pair great kicker and flush draw. Raising allin will let a lesser hand, like JJ, 10-10, AK, Ax fold. We want those hands hands to bet again on later streets.

    So yes, you did lose value here.
  4. happyking happyking is offline

    Minehead
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    Feb 4th, 2011 (2/4/2011 4:39pm) in reply to kelmann333

    yeah thats what my mate said but this was the 1st time villain had reraised like this and so i had to give him some real credit for a hand,
    if i largely put him on ten ten at the worst how much more value can iget with 1 pair? isnt getting the money in with 2 cards to come my priority given all the FE, and the pot?
    Thread Starter
  5. FatDaddyInc FatDaddyInc is offline

    TN
    United States

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    Feb 4th, 2011 (2/4/2011 4:44pm) in reply to grapsfan

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post

    I hope you were being a little facetious about "couldn't see a way off the hand". Poker is tough enough as it is without nonsense like that in your head.

    I like the shove a lot better than smooth-calling. A shove looks like a naked flush draw, and you'll get action from middle pairs. If you call, villain knows you're on something pretty good, and he's shutting down the turn with those hands that would call the shove.

    This
  6. kelmann333 kelmann333 is offline

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    Feb 4th, 2011 (2/4/2011 5:49pm) in reply to happyking

     
    Originally Posted by happyking View Post

    yeah thats what my mate said but this was the 1st time villain had reraised like this and so i had to give him some real credit for a hand,
    if i largely put him on ten ten at the worst how much more value can iget with 1 pair? isnt getting the money in with 2 cards to come my priority given all the FE, and the pot?

    With our hand and monster flop, we are not worried about any hand except KK, which is doubtfull. We want to give villian a chance to add more money. Again, smooth calling looks like we are on a draw and shows weakness; which is what we want. We want villian to add another bet; raising will only get worse hands to fold- so we gain nothing by raising. If villian did have a good hand, we will get the money in anyway on later streets. Since he doesn't, we missed out on at least one more bet.
  7. Hovis139 Hovis139 is offline

    London
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    Feb 7th, 2011 (2/7/2011 3:31pm) in reply to kelmann333

    You call pre, hit the perfect flop & then lose your one customer.
    He probably puts you on a Button steal pre & can 3 bet you fairly light.
    I figure, he is c betting here, no matter what the flop, so I am flatting & hoping he fires another bullet on the turn.
    You got the minimum.
  8. happyking happyking is offline

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    Feb 7th, 2011 (2/7/2011 6:43pm) in reply to Hovis139

    mmm see thats why i had to post this, when i showed my mate he said i should have repopped to 80,000 ish or smooth called it, i didnt actually think villain was getting out line here at the time,but who knows,thinking back i had shown 8tens to bust a big stack a little before, so his reraise may have been just him putting me on trash.. if so my q is looking alot better on the flop.
    As i saw it though, if i do put him on tenten+ ak aq.. isnt it better to just shove the flop since i aint getting any more value for the hand and my outs play MILES better on the flop than the turn?
    Thread Starter
  9. kelmann333 kelmann333 is offline

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    Feb 7th, 2011 (2/7/2011 6:56pm) in reply to happyking

     
    Originally Posted by happyking View Post

    mmm see thats why i had to post this, when i showed my mate he said i should have repopped to 80,000 ish or smooth called it, i didnt actually think villain was getting out line here at the time,but who knows,thinking back i had shown 8tens to bust a big stack a little before, so his reraise may have been just him putting me on trash.. if so my q is looking alot better on the flop.
    As i saw it though, if i do put him on tenten+ ak aq.. isnt it better to just shove the flop since i aint getting any more value for the hand and my outs play MILES better on the flop than the turn?

    NO, read my posts.
  10. Righton Righton is offline

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    Feb 8th, 2011 (2/8/2011 12:00am) in reply to kelmann333

    this is very opponent dependent considering RR PUSH AI w. TPGK, things like taking good notes on this persons 3bet range and how he plays OOP post flop will make a big difference in making your decision easier next time.
  11. happyking happyking is offline

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    Feb 8th, 2011 (2/8/2011 5:46pm) in reply to Righton

    ha, i did kelmann333 but im still not convinced its better.
    I dont expect a 2nd barrel with nothing from this guy,enough of the time.
    With tpgk im still vulnerable to a bad turn card, ie aces, sets, 2nd pairs (if im not already behind) and getting out played which is a disaster on a pot this big.
    Also another reason i prefer the push is for simple table image reasons; playing it this fast makes me much trickier to play against and thats important too.
    Thread Starter
  12. warriordefense08 warriordefense08 is offline

    Dayton, OH
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    Feb 9th, 2011 (2/9/2011 5:18am) in reply to happyking

    I gotta agree with kelmann333 smooth call flop usually going to be call/betting turn and then on river we can reevaluate depending on what comes out.
    I also wouldnt mind a minraise in this situation, i feel like minraises sometimes look weak and might get him to play back at you with worst...
    I feel like he will only call your shove here with AQ QQ+ maybe very few times with 10s and JJ... so i feel like we are losing are +EV by shoving if we only getting called by these hands
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