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No reads obv, as this is the 2nd hand. Whats your standard move here/whats most profitable/what makes most sense?
pokerstars Game #40167410486: Tournament #286011251, $150+$12 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (15/30) - 2010/02/22 15:00:47 CT [2010/02/22 16:00:47 ET]
Table '286011251 2' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: dmitch442 (3000 in chips)
Seat 2: jcamby33 (2985 in chips)
Seat 3: Bumbulbee_G (3015 in chips)
Seat 4: thedylan1 (3000 in chips)
Seat 5: MrLuckBox08 (3000 in chips)
Seat 6: llarriigua (3000 in chips)
Seat 7: shinerrr (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: rjmgrace (3000 in chips)
Seat 9: Speedles (3000 in chips)
Bumbulbee_G: posts small blind 15
thedylan1: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thedylan1 [Qs Qc]
MrLuckBox08: folds
llarriigua: raises 60 to 90
shinerrr: folds
rjmgrace: folds
Speedles: calls 90
dmitch442: folds
jcamby33: folds
Bumbulbee_G: folds
thedylan1: -
Im raising to 250
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If you aren't 3-betting here out of the blinds with QQ vs. a mid-position 3x raise, you're not winning many tournaments. QQ crushes the 2nd-level, mid-position opening range of essentially any style of player.
And for what it's worth the objective should most definitely NOT to get 100bbs in preflop, whether it's a $3 MTT or the Nightly Hundred Grand. I raise to 270 (9bbs......I have 91bbs behind) and re-evaluate after the raiser's next action.
Just my $0.02 worth. -
I like this
Originally Posted by whitespur
If you aren't 3-betting here out of the blinds with QQ vs. a mid-position 3x raise, you're not winning many tournaments. QQ crushes the 1st-level, mid-position opening range of essentially any style of player.
And for what it's worth the objective should most definitely NOT to get 100bbs in preflop, whether it's a $3 MTT or the Nightly Hundred Grand. I raise to 270 (9bbs......I have 91bbs behind) and re-evaluate after the raiser's next action.
Just my $0.02 worth. -
Ya I agree >270, I didn't even notice the flat call before my first response.
Originally Posted by pikappraider78
im 3 betting to like 330-385 50-75% of the time and flatting the other times , just like to mix it up with qq and ak early in tournies since i dont really know whats optimal and im experimenting with either play. it also depends if the opener amd flatter are regs or not
I just don't see the value of a flat here, especially with the flat caller involved in the pot. Intuitively I see a problem with giving the flat caller an opportunity to make a strong hand with his range including all the small-mid pp's and suited connectors.
I kind of feel like flatting QQ out of position in a 3-way pot turns what should be a very strong hand into a set mine. You're just left wondering when faced with significant action on basically any board vs. either player. -
By your passive action pre-flop you are conceding the advantage to not 1, but 2 opponents that will act after you in a multi-way pot. You have not given either of them an opportunity to make a mistake.
How is this +EV? My post-flop example is just semantics. -
there prolly not gonna make that big of a mistake here pre flop with less than QQ. but they would prolly stack of a 10 high or J high flop with A10 or AJ
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DEFINITELY this!!!
Originally Posted by whitespur
If you aren't 3-betting here out of the blinds with QQ vs. a mid-position 3x raise, you're not winning many tournaments. QQ crushes the 2nd-level, mid-position opening range of essentially any style of player.
And for what it's worth the objective should most definitely NOT to get 100bbs in preflop, whether it's a $3 MTT or the Nightly Hundred Grand. I raise to 270 (9bbs......I have 91bbs behind) and re-evaluate after the raiser's next action.
Just my $0.02 worth.
totally agree with this guy. i would re-raise here and if someone re-re-raises me it's obvious that they have AA and i probably fold. maybe could flat if his re-re-raise is small and try to hit a set (after all, ther'es always a chance someone is getting crafty with big slick)
definitely have to be raising here, don't wnat some guy with AJ in there and give him a chance to just hit an ace for only 90 chips
Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.
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Hate when ppl get all crafty with big slick.
Originally Posted by Gags30
DEFINITELY this!!!
totally agree with this guy. i would re-raise here and if someone re-re-raises me it's obvious that they have AA and i probably fold. maybe could flat if his re-re-raise is small and try to hit a set (after all, ther'es always a chance someone is getting crafty with big slick)
definitely have to be raising here, don't wnat some guy with AJ in there and give him a chance to just hit an ace for only 90 chips -
whitespur flatting def isnt bad, i mainly 3bet vs regs to balance my 3b range vs them and i 3b vs randoms for value. but yah the times i flat ill just flat it and play it cautiously, check call most flops turns and rivers, check raising some, check folding a few, calling 1 or 2 barrells sometimes. i tend to call atleast 2 and aot of the time 3 barrells with qq since were real underrepped and ppl will keep firing with a hand like 1010 or 99 on a rags board for value
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out of position deep. i like flatting here sometimes, if you 3 bet and he calls and an ace or king flops how do u proceed? in position i 3 bet everytime. really depends. if im on tilt i probalby make it 500 or shove :)
not like ur gonna win a huge pot from JJ or TT...unless he is a fucktard. which since ur playing a $162 tourney i doubt it.
think position is more key deep stacked bra.
position-deep-bra work it work it, feel the flow. -
Pikap, since you said you aren't sure what is optimal here with QQ/AK it would be interesting to run your 2009 hand histories through PokerTracker and see what the numbers are. I am not convinced that you profit chips over time flatting QQ here.
I think it would be more or less unanimous from good cash game players that flatting QQ here 100bbs deep in full ring, absent reads, would be horrible. I'm not sure why 100bbs deep early in a tournament is any different mathematically. -
i just love the days when gags is over p5s and honors us w his hof posts <3
Originally Posted by Gags30
DEFINITELY this!!!
totally agree with this guy. i would re-raise here and if someone re-re-raises me it's obvious that they have AA and i probably fold. maybe could flat if his re-re-raise is small and try to hit a set (after all, ther'es always a chance someone is getting crafty with big slick)
definitely have to be raising here, don't wnat some guy with AJ in there and give him a chance to just hit an ace for only 90 chips -
id just get it in. if you are against aa theres definatly the q coming on the river. how do i know? because everytime I have aa vs underpair. it hits the river!
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