[x]
  1. No reads obv, as this is the 2nd hand. Whats your standard move here/whats most profitable/what makes most sense?

    pokerstars Game #40167410486: Tournament #286011251, $150+$12 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (15/30) - 2010/02/22 15:00:47 CT [2010/02/22 16:00:47 ET]
    Table '286011251 2' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: dmitch442 (3000 in chips)
    Seat 2: jcamby33 (2985 in chips)
    Seat 3: Bumbulbee_G (3015 in chips)
    Seat 4: thedylan1 (3000 in chips)
    Seat 5: MrLuckBox08 (3000 in chips)
    Seat 6: llarriigua (3000 in chips)
    Seat 7: shinerrr (3000 in chips)
    Seat 8: rjmgrace (3000 in chips)
    Seat 9: Speedles (3000 in chips)
    Bumbulbee_G: posts small blind 15
    thedylan1: posts big blind 30
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to thedylan1 [Qs Qc]
    MrLuckBox08: folds
    llarriigua: raises 60 to 90
    shinerrr: folds
    rjmgrace: folds
    Speedles: calls 90
    dmitch442: folds
    jcamby33: folds
    Bumbulbee_G: folds
    thedylan1:
     
  2. Im raising to 250
  3. in a 162 im more inclined to flat and play a smaller pot out of position than i am in a lower stakes tournament, where my goal is to usually get it in as fast as possible
     
  4. Flat
     
  5. If you aren't 3-betting here out of the blinds with QQ vs. a mid-position 3x raise, you're not winning many tournaments. QQ crushes the 2nd-level, mid-position opening range of essentially any style of player.

    And for what it's worth the objective should most definitely NOT to get 100bbs in preflop, whether it's a $3 MTT or the Nightly Hundred Grand. I raise to 270 (9bbs......I have 91bbs behind) and re-evaluate after the raiser's next action.

    Just my $0.02 worth.
  6. im 3 betting to like 330-385 50-75% of the time and flatting the other times , just like to mix it up with qq and ak early in tournies since i dont really know whats optimal and im experimenting with either play. it also depends if the opener amd flatter are regs or not
     
  7.  
    Originally Posted by whitespur View Post

    If you aren't 3-betting here out of the blinds with QQ vs. a mid-position 3x raise, you're not winning many tournaments. QQ crushes the 1st-level, mid-position opening range of essentially any style of player.

    And for what it's worth the objective should most definitely NOT to get 100bbs in preflop, whether it's a $3 MTT or the Nightly Hundred Grand. I raise to 270 (9bbs......I have 91bbs behind) and re-evaluate after the raiser's next action.

    Just my $0.02 worth.

    I like this
  8.  
    Originally Posted by pikappraider78 View Post

    im 3 betting to like 330-385 50-75% of the time and flatting the other times , just like to mix it up with qq and ak early in tournies since i dont really know whats optimal and im experimenting with either play. it also depends if the opener amd flatter are regs or not

    Ya I agree >270, I didn't even notice the flat call before my first response.

    I just don't see the value of a flat here, especially with the flat caller involved in the pot. Intuitively I see a problem with giving the flat caller an opportunity to make a strong hand with his range including all the small-mid pp's and suited connectors.

    I kind of feel like flatting QQ out of position in a 3-way pot turns what should be a very strong hand into a set mine. You're just left wondering when faced with significant action on basically any board vs. either player.
  9. just flat em this early imo
  10.  
    Originally Posted by My Brim Low View Post

    just flat em this early imo

    And then do what when one of these guys double-barrels a 9T26 board?

    Just wondering.
  11.  
    Originally Posted by whitespur View Post

    And then do exactly what when one of these guys double-barrels a 9T26 board?

    Just sayin'

    lol u just have to play it accordingly. what if they flat u pre and lead a 9 T 2 flop or c/r u? then what?
  12.  
    Originally Posted by whitespur View Post

    And then do what when one of these guys double-barrels a 9T26 board?

    Just wondering.

    or fold cuz ur prolly beat
  13. By your passive action pre-flop you are conceding the advantage to not 1, but 2 opponents that will act after you in a multi-way pot. You have not given either of them an opportunity to make a mistake.

    How is this +EV? My post-flop example is just semantics.
  14.  
    Originally Posted by whitespur View Post

    By your passive action pre-flop you are conceding the advantage to not 1, but 2 opponents that will act after you in a multi-way pot. You have not given either of them an opportunity to make a mistake.

    How is this +EV? My post-flop example is just semantics.

    there prolly not gonna make that big of a mistake here pre flop with less than QQ. but they would prolly stack of a 10 high or J high flop with A10 or AJ
  15.  
    Originally Posted by whitespur View Post

    If you aren't 3-betting here out of the blinds with QQ vs. a mid-position 3x raise, you're not winning many tournaments. QQ crushes the 2nd-level, mid-position opening range of essentially any style of player.

    And for what it's worth the objective should most definitely NOT to get 100bbs in preflop, whether it's a $3 MTT or the Nightly Hundred Grand. I raise to 270 (9bbs......I have 91bbs behind) and re-evaluate after the raiser's next action.

    Just my $0.02 worth.

    DEFINITELY this!!!

    totally agree with this guy. i would re-raise here and if someone re-re-raises me it's obvious that they have AA and i probably fold. maybe could flat if his re-re-raise is small and try to hit a set (after all, ther'es always a chance someone is getting crafty with big slick)

    definitely have to be raising here, don't wnat some guy with AJ in there and give him a chance to just hit an ace for only 90 chips

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  16.  
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    DEFINITELY this!!!

    totally agree with this guy. i would re-raise here and if someone re-re-raises me it's obvious that they have AA and i probably fold. maybe could flat if his re-re-raise is small and try to hit a set (after all, ther'es always a chance someone is getting crafty with big slick)

    definitely have to be raising here, don't wnat some guy with AJ in there and give him a chance to just hit an ace for only 90 chips

    Hate when ppl get all crafty with big slick.
  17. Repopping to 325sh
     
  18. whitespur flatting def isnt bad, i mainly 3bet vs regs to balance my 3b range vs them and i 3b vs randoms for value. but yah the times i flat ill just flat it and play it cautiously, check call most flops turns and rivers, check raising some, check folding a few, calling 1 or 2 barrells sometimes. i tend to call atleast 2 and aot of the time 3 barrells with qq since were real underrepped and ppl will keep firing with a hand like 1010 or 99 on a rags board for value
     
  19. out of position deep. i like flatting here sometimes, if you 3 bet and he calls and an ace or king flops how do u proceed? in position i 3 bet everytime. really depends. if im on tilt i probalby make it 500 or shove :)

    not like ur gonna win a huge pot from JJ or TT...unless he is a fucktard. which since ur playing a $162 tourney i doubt it.

    think position is more key deep stacked bra.

    position-deep-bra work it work it, feel the flow.
  20. Pikap, since you said you aren't sure what is optimal here with QQ/AK it would be interesting to run your 2009 hand histories through PokerTracker and see what the numbers are. I am not convinced that you profit chips over time flatting QQ here.

    I think it would be more or less unanimous from good cash game players that flatting QQ here 100bbs deep in full ring, absent reads, would be horrible. I'm not sure why 100bbs deep early in a tournament is any different mathematically.
  21.  
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    DEFINITELY this!!!

    totally agree with this guy. i would re-raise here and if someone re-re-raises me it's obvious that they have AA and i probably fold. maybe could flat if his re-re-raise is small and try to hit a set (after all, ther'es always a chance someone is getting crafty with big slick)

    definitely have to be raising here, don't wnat some guy with AJ in there and give him a chance to just hit an ace for only 90 chips

    i just love the days when gags is over p5s and honors us w his hof posts <3
    1 
  22. id just get it in. if you are against aa theres definatly the q coming on the river. how do i know? because everytime I have aa vs underpair. it hits the river!
  23.  
    Originally Posted by Adam013085 View Post

    id just get it in. if you are against aa theres definatly the q coming on the river. how do i know? because everytime I have aa vs underpair. it hits the river!

    post less
    1 
  24.  
    Originally Posted by Adam013085 View Post

    id just get it in. if you are against aa theres definatly the q coming on the river. how do i know? because everytime I have aa vs underpair. it hits the river!

    [ ] useful advice
    [ ] funny
     

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